Hondata

I'm just curious about the fuel adjustment on the fuel tables.

I have some rich spikes on the AF graph of my datalog. I notice that once I have my calibration loaded and I am looking at the fuel adjustment on the fuel table there are adjustment amounts for each cam angle. Do I adjust each fuel value for each cam angle in normal view by the corresponding adjustment amount to hopefully improve this? For example, normal view shows the following for 4500 and 5000 RPM on column 8 and 9:
2183 2442
2073 2442
The adjustment values for 50 deg CAM are:
-24 -30
-29 -28
Do I just change the values to:
2159 2412
2044 2414
Then do a datalog run again and see how the AF graph is? Obviously I would change all the values for all cam angles.
My car has been professionally tuned on a dyno, but I think it is best to refine on the road in true driving conditions.

The suggested changes are in %. You will hve to increase it by that percentage, not just add that number to the value already there.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I have applied all the adjustments as percentages. Now the fuel tables look very unsmooth (before, after and adjustment images attached).

Should I average out a column and adjust the whole column by the same amount instead?

The part throttle fuel changes you have are very large - this would imply that your short term fuel trim is very high. First you need to check that your o2 is reading correctly, there are no error codes, you have not disabled any error codes and that your target AF is correct. It may pay to post the calibration and datalog here so that we can check that.

If everything is correct, and your fuelling is really that rich at part throttle, the best thing to do first is to first adjust the fuelling over the first 10 columns by the same percentage, and then see if the lambda changes as expected.

You do not want to fine tune anything yet - in any case, the 2d graph should never have lines that cross.

Thanks again for the prompt reply.

It may be worth noting that my car is a UK Civic Type-R with PRA ECU and Innovate LC-1 wideband O2 sensor wired into ELD pin.

I'm pretty sure my O2 sensor is working well as the AF readings are very close to the target most of the time. It has recently been calibrated too.

I have noticed that my Short Term Fuel Trim is quite high in closed loop - up to 30%. I have attached a datalog. I cannot upload my calibration as I promised my tuner I would not give it to anyone! I understand that this will limit the help you can provide.

AF conversions for the ELD pin are as follows:
1.33=7.350
1.96=10.358
2.68=13.366
3.41=16.374
4.14=19.382
4.85=22.39
5.00=23.00

Under Closed Loop Parameters "Disable P0135 (O2 heater)" is ticked. Settings for short term adjustment are:
Minimum short term adjustment -27%
Maximum short term adjustment 47%

you cant post your calibration cause your tuner wants it a secret? thats a joke if i ever heard one. what does he thing he knows somthing the rest of us dont? from what i see , your tuner sucks anyways. ive never seen a car that left a so called tuner with a short term so terrible. do yourself a favor , post the calibration so we can help you.

First, why is the o2 sensor heater disabled? It makes no sense to start making closed loop adjustments if there is a problem with the o2 sensor. The heater should not be disabled unless the sensor is not present.

The attached datalog is not consistent with the lambda changes you first posted. It actually looks lean at cruise on the low cam, and a little lean under boost except the high cam 50 degree table, which is rich. Certainly you don't want to remove 40% fuel until you have investigated a little further.

Are you using 50 cam for cruise as well? If I was you I'd tune your 20 and 30 cams and then set it at 25 for cruise.

I cannot upload my calibration as I promised my tuner I would not give it to anyone! I understand that this will limit the help you can provide.

You can send your calibration to ashtray.
You upload an datalog, from it is possible take enough datas to making imagination about your calibration.

Ok, another question. Please take a look an attached picture. Did you make any changes at two left fields?

Hondata wrote:First, why is the o2 sensor heater disabled? It makes no sense to start making closed loop adjustments if there is a problem with the o2 sensor. The heater should not be disabled unless the sensor is not present.

The attached datalog is not consistent with the lambda changes you first posted. It actually looks lean at cruise on the low cam, and a little lean under boost except the high cam 50 degree table, which is rich. Certainly you don't want to remove 40% fuel until you have investigated a little further.

The o2 sensor was disabled on the calibration after it was tuned. I have unticked it now and there are no errors. The attached datalog was from the kal previous to the fuel adjustment changes I made, it was just to show the high S. Trim values.

fonz600 wrote:Are you using 50 cam for cruise as well? If I was you I'd tune your 20 and 30 cams and then set it at 25 for cruise.

The cam angles are set almost the same as the k20a2-rsx-650cc-jrsc-10-psi.kal

sass wrote:

I cannot upload my calibration as I promised my tuner I would not give it to anyone! I understand that this will limit the help you can provide.

You can send your calibration to ashtray.
You upload an datalog, from it is possible take enough datas to making imagination about your calibration.

Ok, another question. Please take a look an attached picture. Did you make any changes at two left fields?

I have have not changed the default values for the analog out on the LC-1

I think that you plug brown wire LC1 analog 2 to ELD E15.
Then you should to change settings K-Manager as shown at attached picture.
Also you should to add 15% to Overall Fuel Trim in K-Manager settings, as so as I understand datalog you attach.
For set new calibration you should to visit nearest DYNO, but your old calibration you can send to ashtray.

sass wrote:I think that you plug brown wire LC1 analog 2 to ELD E15.
Then you should to change settings K-Manager as shown at attached picture.
Also you should to add 15% to Overall Fuel Trim in K-Manager settings, as so as I understand datalog you attach.
For set new calibration you should to visit nearest DYNO, but your old calibration you can send to ashtray.

It's okay, the LC-1 is set up correctly. Due to a voltage offset problem on the ELD pin on some ECU's I had to set the Voltage/Lambda Conversion Table to these values (as mentioned in the 5th post):

1.33=7.350
1.96=10.358
2.68=13.366
3.41=16.374
4.14=19.382
4.85=22.39
5.00=23.00

With regards to the calibration, why recommend going to a tuner to get tuned on the dyno when each time I have done so apparently my calibration has been no good. I'm not giving names or companies but both times I have had my car tuned on the dyno at two different official Hondata dealers.
After the first tune the car did not run well at all, possibly due to the fact that it still had the stock header and stock spark plugs.
Second time, with a racing header, Gruppe M air intake, HKS S40i spark plugs and Toda exhaust fitted, the car ran great apart from toasting the spark plugs after a few months - which could have been one of many factors; poor fuel, fuel additives, knocking, etc. After replacing the plugs with nice new HKS M40i's it has been running great. It is just my curiousity and obsession with mucking around with things and not leaving them alone when they seem to be fine that made me start this post. I have a CarPC permanently wired to the Hondata so datalog almost every drive I do and enjoy looking at the graphs.
So, if there is a perfect tuner in UK, preferably Scotland, please let me know who they are so I can go to them. I suppose the perfect tuner would fine tune the car on the road after using the dyno. I have a larger spoiler on the rear of the car to aid handling at high speed, which I'm sure increases load on the engine at high speeds causing more knock in the higher gears. This would not be taken into consideration while tuning on a dyno.

I don't know of any tuner I'd recommend to be honest and I've worked on maps from a few of the so called specialists.

I thought about getting some interest on a date where MASE would come and tune cars with Kpro at an independant dyno but would depend on interest.

He comes highly recommended although not seen any of his work first hand.

fonz600 wrote:I don't know of any tuner I'd recommend to be honest and I've worked on maps from a few of the so called specialists.

I thought about getting some interest on a date where MASE would come and tune cars with Kpro at an independant dyno but would depend on interest.

He comes highly recommended although not seen any of his work first hand.

Sounds expensive! Would need to cover his flight and accommodation!

Hondata wrote: If everything is correct, and your fuelling is really that rich at part throttle, the best thing to do first is to first adjust the fuelling over the first 10 columns by the same percentage, and then see if the lambda changes as expected.

I reduced the first 10 columns on the 50 deg high cam table by around 10% and there was much improvement on the new datalog. The 20 and 30 deg low cam tables were lean so I increased the first 10 columns of each table by the same percentage and have noticed a big improvement in drivability and short term trim - max of 9% compared with 30%.
It does look as though the tables used in normal driving require a bit of adjustment - I suppose most tuners only fine tune the full throttle tables to get max power.