Just wanted to share my results from tuning with Hondata and Snow Performance. Hope you all my benefit as well. I will also post my calibration from this tuning session in the appropriate section.
Thanks!
I have a 2000 Honda Civic Si with the following items:
1.6 Liter DOHC VTEC Motor
JRSC (M62 Blower)
MVM Stepper Pulley + 4" Blower Pulley (Approximately 12 PSI)
AEM Cold Air Intake
JG Engine Dynamics 64.5MM Throttle Body
GM 3Bar MAP Sensor
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
RC 440 cc Fuel Injectors
Integra GSR Intake Cam (model year 2000)
Integra GSR Exhaust Cam (model year 2000)
JG Engine Dynamics Adjustable Cam Gears
DC Sports Stainless Steel 4-2-1 Exhaust Manifold
Random Technology Metallic High Flow Catalytic Converter
DC Sports Stainless Steel Exhaust System
Hondata S300
On your JR setup, we use the #20010 Stage 2 injection kit, that injects proportionally according to boost pressure. Unfortunately, the outputs/drivers on any standalone, including the very capable Hondata, can't handle the load of driving the pump so our controllers realyl are very necessary. Also, you don't have to go through the long and drawn out procedure of trying to figure out what PWM frequency, % etc. as we have done all that for you.
Typically, we get 10-20% increase in power over pump gas, and with that Eaton making as much heat as it does, and the tuneability with the Hondata, you should see a great increase.
Greg
Greg,
Thanks for the clarification. The Eaton supercharger (in my opinion) is great for many of these small Honda motors, but the heat from them is unbelievable!
One of my biggest concerns from the dyno tuning aspect was at what boost / RPM to start injection, etc. I am glad to see Snow Performance addressing the needs of all customers, with a solid knowledge base to support the product.
daveb91
VC I am also going to use the snow kit on my JRSC and would love to see your results when your done!
Thanks for the sharing of info cant get anyone else with a JRSC to share anything will you be shooting before or after the blower?
I am going to inject before the blower into the AEM Cold Air Intake pipe. It seems to be the most beneficial for cooling the intake charge and the blower. Using the JRSC manifold port for water injection doesnt seem like it will help cool the blower at all, just the intake charge.
I might use the hole that is predrilled for the air temperature sensor, since I have relocated mine to the JRSC manifold, if it is the right size for the boost cooler nozzle. If not, I will drill a new hole in the pipe at the recommended distance from the throttle body.
All,
I have had the dyno tuning completed on my Civic Si. It was conducted on a Dynojet at Walker Dyno Tune in Trussville Alabama. The tuner was Jim Helbig from Motorvations Motorsports, also of Trussville.
Before I get into the horsepower and temperature numbers, I would like to add a quote from Corky Bell in his book titled "Supercharged! Design, Testing and Installation of Supercharger Systems".
In chapter 8: Intercooling; Water Injector: "The water injector, which forces atomized water into the intake charge, is not a very interesting device. It has little place in a properly concieved supercharger system. To stake the safety of a supercharged engine on an inherently unreliable device is an idea whose time has long passed. Like the intercooler, the water injector's purpose is to reduce the intake charge temperature to avoid detonation, but it doesnt work as well as an intercooler. The water vapor itself takes up space in the combustion intake charge, leaving significantly less air and fuel to burn and requiring that boost be raised to stay even in power output. The water injector suffers from the "ballpoint pen syndrome," since it runs out of fluid during use."
In chapter 8: Intercooling; What is water injection, and when is it needed? "Water injection is the spraying of a fine stream of H2O into the intake system. Heat absorbed upon vaporization of the water has a strong cooling effect on the hot compressed air exiting the supercharger. The reduction in intake air temperature reduces the tendancy to knock. Dont be too hasty to to create a margin of safety on detonation on an unreliable device. Water injection is best used when boost levels over 6psi are desired but no intercooler is present. Do not allow a situation to exist where the water injector is used as an excuse for improper air / fuel rations. All things considered, you would be far ahead never to have heard of a water injector."
I was surprised to hear this information, and I am sure Mr. Bell has done a lot of research, testing, decelopment, etc., but I get the feeling he has no faith in water injection at all. Now Water / Methanol injection may be a different story altogether.
On the dyno, my little 1.6L motor baselined at 166HP (no WM Injection). It was a little lean throughout the powerband, and the first couple pulls had to be cut short in order to add fuel and adjust timing. Afterwards, it put down 189HP with a 12.5:1 Air / Fuel ratio and a maximum recorded intake air temperature of 239 degrees Fahrenheit. The capability of the stock Honda intake air sensor was almost maxed out (245 degrees).
The Snow Performance controller wiring harness was plugged in for the next series off dyno pulls. The settings were 4psi to start injection and 15psi for full injection flow. The intake air temperature dropped from 239 degrees to 211 degrees, and the air / fuel ratio richened slightly. Jim was wondering if the the WM Injection was not reaching full output, so we lowered the full injection point to 10psi and made another pull. Intake air temperature dropped to 199 degrees, and horsepower increased to 200 with the addition of 2 degrees of timing.
After a cool down period, and a recheck of all data, it was found that the WM injection raised boost pressure from 10.5 - 11 psi to 13 - 13.5 psi. We made some controller setting changes, and did some more pulls, adding timing each time.
Results: 225 Front Wheel Horsepower, with 154 Foot Pounds of Torque from a 1.6 Liter engine. Intake air temperature was now a maximum of 180 degrees with an air fuel ratio of 12.5:1 from 1500 rpm through 7800 rpm, and slightly richer from 7800 rpm to 9000 rpm for the times when I partake in extended "High Altitude Flying" (lol Jim!!)
By comparison, a JRSC equipped Acura Integra GSR with similar intake, header, catalytic converter, and exhaust and Hondata S300 made 200 WHP from it's 1.8 Liter engine. (For my setup, please see the very beginning of this thread).
Granted, turbos would have made more HP from the same boost level, but I enjoyed the challenge of finding a good cooling solution for the Jackson Racing Supercharger, that has no dedicated intercooler due to packaging restrictions within the engine bay.
From the results that I obtained, WM Injection is very beneficial to the JRSC systems utilizing the roots style blower, and as seen from many other posts from people using centrifical superchargers and turbos, it is worth its weight in gold.
Like anything, the better you maintain it, the better and longer it will last. It takes me no longer to check and fill the WM tank while waiting for the gas station pump to fill my gas tank. Same as checking the oil or anything else under the hood. Like everyone else on this forum, we have invested a few $$$ in our vehicles, and are more attentive than most when it comes to maintenance.
In my opinion, water injection, with a helping of methanol and good tuning, is far from an "unreliable device". 36 wheel HP increase from 1.6 Liters due to WM Injection and timing! Hell yeah!!!
The Hondata S300 along with the Snow Performance Boost Cooler system made this modified vehicle strong and reliable as a daily driver that sometimes sees 6 to 10 hours on the road for business or pleasure. I dont think without either one of these products, it would have been possible.
Vaughn