Hondata

Started with k20a2 coldair. Went through and tuned 0-50 degree low cam for a/f and retarded ignition where I saw WOT knock... also eliminated knock in part throttle areas when they popped up... which was quite a bit on 20 - 30 degree low cam 1500 - 3000 rpm from the coldair cal on 91 octane.

In any case, I started tuning the high cams today and switched locations... a few miles apart... I found a nice stretch of a pretty quiet highway with entry / exit ramps for cross roads at a pretty close distance so I could do 3rd gear pulls from ramp to ramp without even merging up to just under 8400 rpm.

The first thing I noticed was that I really needed to add 5-10% fuel in the mid range (say 4k - 6k) to keep from getting lean cut at 14.2 for 250ms. It got to the point where I was just adding 10% fuel to the whole map (3k - 8500) to start with.

As I started tuning the 20 degree high cam, I got a pretty quick lean cut while under 3k (still on low cam, which were at 20 also obviously). I switched the vtec point back to 6500 to check out the 20 degree low cam. DAMN, talk about lean lean lean. I ended up adding as much as 10% fuel in some areas to get it to hang around 13.0 - 13.5 WOT. The 20 low cam was tuned to the same area yesterday. What possibly could have happened here?

The only things I can think of is temperature, the change in 'road load', or the fact that i'm not tuning with closed loop disabled since I am only tuning WOT now. The temp around here has been around 105f (40c) and perhaps this is messing with the stability of intake air temp compensations. The 20 degree low cam was a/f tuned by driving down a incline and I changed to more flat area that I go both directions on now.

As for closed loop -- I go into open loop at 80kpa. I know that in my datalogs before any section I am trying to tune for, the ecu switches to open loop... so I wouldn't think this would be an issue since I'm only tuning columns 8 - 10 and simply adjusting all columns by the same % when tuning WOT.

I think I am going to have to go back and double check the other low cams to make sure that I didn't end up lean across the whole board. I'm trying to hit 13 - 13.5 a/f.. erroring on the side of being rich as normal.

Any idea what might have happened?

I have been reading through the IAT compensation table thread on http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=204865 .

It is possible that something is going on in relation to this table? The temp has been around 95 - 105 during the whole time i've been tuning a/f.

Well guys, this may be a false alarm, unless it's a bug in kmanager itself. Summary: some how all my fuel tables for low are the same. Same with the high cam fuel tables... all the same.

It would appear that I was making adjustments to all tables for the last high and low cam tuning I did... but I'm almost certian that the edit all tables button was *not* checked. I'm sure it's possble, but I always check the cam drop down and that check box before making changes... I can't imagine going through a whole two cams without noticing it. I'm sure anything is possible however.

I had to have had accidently clicked 'edit all tables' and must not have restarted kmanager across the two days I was tuning. Every time I upload I save a new revision. Every time I reach a milestone, I update the notes with what the status is. I have 80 revisions of this calibration and well, I can go back and copy the right tables from the various revisions when tuning a given cam was done. to build the right fuel tables. I just can't believe I didn't notice it sooner... I tuned out some knock from 20 degrees after tuning fuel for 30 degrees (low) so during that 20 degree low cam knock hunt, I was running on 30 degree fuel tables. I probably adjusted them back too, which screwed up 30 degrees... go figure.

Here's a perfect reason why you save and save *revisions* often.

I'd still like to know if it's safe to tune in with closed loop enabled if you are only trying to tune WOT and have open loop set to enage at 80kpa. I assume closed loop needs to be disabled only for tuning columns 7 and below then.

Is this correct?

Wayne

Razathorn wrote:I'd still like to know if it's safe to tune in with closed loop enabled if you are only trying to tune WOT and have open loop set to enage at 80kpa. I assume closed loop needs to be disabled only for tuning columns 7 and below then.

Is this correct?

Wayne

Once again, answering my own questions in old threads...

I have found, as have many others, that it is safe to tune above the closed loop point with closed loop still enabled. The one thing to watch out for is that the ecu actually swiches into openloop mode -- which it always has for me. If you experience strainge behavior when tuning .. add the fuel status metric to your graph and ensure it is switching to closed loop when you romp on the gas.

Have to ask the obvious question, what is the point of trying to tune in closed loop when it's only one click to switch to open?

iwilson wrote:Have to ask the obvious question, what is the point of trying to tune in closed loop when it's only one click to switch to open?

Part throttle maps being fairly lean or rich from a base map. It's easy to forget and leave it in open loop and -- remember, a lot of us tune a/f on the street so there's lots of driving in between full throttle runs... not just sitting on a dyno.