"Jag", are you out there?

acteg · Post by **acteg** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 10:44 am

I have the same setup you are running in your GSR except i am getting to 8.5psi on my jackson charger. anyhow, what kinda dyno figures have you gotten with the hondata? without it? did you run your JR charger without the hondata? what changes did you notice after adding the hondata? gas mileage? HP? I have a hondata in my racecar but I am debating whether or not to mess with my daily GSR's 30 mpg economy. Also, where did you get the base map for it?

I saw your post on the tech edge WBO2. can't that TE box be used to run closed loop on the factory, or hondata, ecu (i.e. leave the WBO2 as your only O2 on the car)? thanks in advance dude.

jag · Post by **jag** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 7:56 pm

When I first installed my blower I did it with the jackson racing fuel management hacks. I wasn't terribly happy with they way it ran. It was very rich under boost. My fuel economy was terrible. I couldn't blame the JRSC for all of that. It was my fault that I spent so much time under boost.
The fuel economy definately improved when I installed the hondata. When I had the 6 PSI pulley on I did some dyno runs on a dyno dynamics dyno and got about 175 HP at the wheels. This is an eddy current dyno and it reads anywhere between 10-15 percent lower than a dynojet. So, that is about 190 at the wheels on a dynojet. I never dynoed it before I had the hondata in it.
I started with a GSR base map and tuned from there. It still needs some work. I was having problems with the injector duty cycle. I recently installed 440 injectors and I have to do some retuning with the new injectors. It's been running pretty rich lately.
The techedge box wouldn't work for closed loop because it has a different output voltage than the NB o2 sensor. The output of the techedge varies between 0 and 5 volts as opposed to 0 and 1.

-Jeremy

acteg · Post by **acteg** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:11 am

if the voltage levels of the WB are too high, wouldn't it be possible to use a voltage divider circuit to cut your range down to 0-1V. or does the chracteristic slope of the WB and NB differ too much for the ECU to understand the different signal? have you tried making it work?

I guess I need to understand a little bit more about the way the ECU works and the difference between wide-band and narrow-band O2's.
Thank

jag · Post by **jag** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:12 am

The narrow band o2 sensors are basically a switch. The voltage will stay very close to 0 volts until the mixture reaches stoich and then it will suddenly jump up to around 1 volt. So, the ECU just tries to keep it on bouncing back and forth between 0 and 1 volt. A NB o2 sensor will basically only tell you if you are lean, rich or at stoich. The wide band give you a more continuous output voltage that will correspond to it's whole range of sensitivity. The software on the ECU isn't set up to deal with this sort of signal. You could make a circuit with a comparator that would make a wb behave like a nb but I think the only advantage would be that you could pick your mixture instead of always being at stoich. I guess this could be helpful if you wanted to run a turbo car in closed loop all of the time but it doesn't really seem worth it. If you just tune the car well you shouldn't have to worry about it and the NB sensors are much cheaper.

-Jeremy

acteg · Post by **acteg** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:23 am

I tried sending you a private message, but apparantly that function is disabled.

Anyhow, I have been gathering a list of knowledgeable people in the car business as well as enthusiats that know their stuff. I would like for you to be on it. topics include technical issues like the one we just discussed. no bs.

it is a mailing list that sees little traffic, but plenty of room to learn, and share knowledge. honda, toy, VW, nissan, even a couple big block guys. if you are interested, I need your e-mail. you can send it direct if you want to sruiz@sikorsky.com. easy to unsubscribed if you want to later on.

thanks again.

Carchitect · Post by **Carchitect** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 9:26 pm

The wideband o2 systems are really geared for tuning. Using them daily can endup costing you a lot to replace these sensors all the time. The narrow band sensors only work at a certain manifold vacuum and are there to help change the overall fuel trim ajdustment. So once you have tuned the fuel tables out on using the WB O2 w/Rom editor you shouldn't need to worry about enrichening it since the ecu will do a complete table adjustment every time the ambient temp and/or baro pressure were to change.

Joe

DaX · Post by **DaX** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 6:12 pm

Carchitect wrote:The wideband o2 systems are really geared for tuning. Using them daily can endup costing you a lot to replace these sensors all the time. The narrow band sensors only work at a certain manifold vacuum and are there to help change the overall fuel trim ajdustment. So once you have tuned the fuel tables out on using the WB O2 w/Rom editor you shouldn't need to worry about enrichening it since the ecu will do a complete table adjustment every time the ambient temp and/or baro pressure were to change.

Joe

Forgive my lack of knowledge [I'm learning every day], but are you saying that you would only use the WB Lambda Meter with the WBo2 sensor when you are tuning? So when you're not actually tuning the WBo2 and Lambda Meter should be replaced with the stock o2 sensor?

Thanks

jag · Post by **jag** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:09 pm

exactly right.

The wideband sensors are more expensive and the firmware in the ECU isn't set up to utilize it. The widebands are mostly useful for tuning.

They will wear out more quickly than the narrow band ones.

-Jeremy

Hondata