Hondata

Hello, first-time poster here.

I have a 2013 coupe. Got it tuned back in May, made great gains but over time it developed a low, boggy idle and very jerky throttle. Reflashed to the basemap, problems disappeared. Took it back today, they were pretty dumbfounded by it. They tried to fix it by dialing back the knock retard and enabling AFM fuel at lower intake pressures (original tune is speed density only). Didn't really work and it made the car feel slower, so I reverted back to the old tune and decided to make some changes myself (totally great idea btw). I changed the throttle tip in retard to -100% for all gears and enabled the VTC table option during decel fuel cut, since I've heard these can help smooth out the throttle response (which it did!). I also disabled ELD and economy alternator control in an attempt to smooth out the idle (spoiler, it didn't really help). Is there any benefit to enabling/disabling ELD/eco alternator? Other than that, tune is untouched.

I also finally decided to record a datalog for the first time and get it analyzed here. It's a 7-minute drive where I do two WOT pulls, one in 3rd and another from 2nd-3rd. Plus a bit of low speed cruising. I got 4~5 knocks in cylinders #1-3, but looking at the log the knock retard doesn't seem to spike during WOT. It does spike when I rev match downshift after the 4 minute mark and everywhere else. You can also see that when I clutch in, the revs dip to the low 600's, sometimes even lower. I even had the car stall once because of that. It also takes a while to reach the target RPM. Turning on the blower fan will also bog the car. So, is this tune decent? Or have I been slowly destroying my engine over the past 6 months.

Mods: AFE intake (boo, I know), rv6 catted exhaust, invidia q300

I can tell you what I THINK based on what you provided and my reasoning behind it.

You have an aftermarket intake and exhaust.
Your speed density min is set to -14.7, (You said it was full speed density before however, at idle/part throttle, your MAF sensor is controlling the fuel supply with those settings)

If my understanding is correct, all your issues are when you're at idle. Based on your calibration, the speed density tables are not being used by the ecu at idle.

If all the above are correct, you need to rescale your MAF sensor. You have an aftermarket CAI supplying more air than stock at idle, therefore you are leaning out a bit when you're idle and when you hit the throttle, it isn't by much but your LTFT is at 3%. Adjusting the knock retard or the idle tables won't fix the idle problems.

I am no expert but based on what I see, and while 3% isn't terrible (per hondata +/-5% is acceptable), your calibration still has the stock AFM settings.

I recommend adjusting your AFM by about +2% to make your LTFT look better, and since you don't have a stock I/E, set your idle once fully warmed up to 900-1000. Your calibration is at 750rpm idle, which is most likely the main issue here.

Everything I said to change has been adjusted here.
Please let me know if your issues are sorted as I am learning and the feedback would be appreciated.

- Brandon

Thanks for finally replaying Brandon! Unfortunately I think I found some holes in your theory. In my calibration, the option for AFM fuel tables has already been disabled. I'm also assuming that -14.7 PSI refers to gauge pressure (AKA 29.9" Hg or a perfect vacuum). So the tune is definitely running speed density at all times.

I also don't think my MAF sensor settings are the primary cause. This is because if I use the hondata reflash tune (which is AFM), the idle is completely fine and it doesn't drop below 600 RPM when the revs return to idle. It will hover briefly at around 1000 RPM before slowly dropping (which is the expected behavior). Even if the values weren't 100% matched to my intake, it's probably not enough to cause an issue. The idle speed in that tune is also set to the factory default of 750 so that also isn't the problem. I do appreciate your time and your response has given me more insight into what is going on.

I've recorded another datalog recently and attached it below. The idling issues can very clearly be seen between 0:40 and 1:40. The A/F ratios are all over the place and the ignition timing is spiking. When the revs drop to idle it bottoms out to 630 RPM which is definitely not normal.

Also, the jerky throttle problem has returned! Driving the car pretty hard (100+ mph or more than a couple WOT pulls to redline) seems to reliably trigger it. Afterwards for some time the car will suffer from lots of hesitation and the throttle will feel like an on/off switch (part throttle completely f'kd). In low gears the car will deadass pogo back and forth. I'm thinking it's the knock retard going completely haywire. Haven't caught it on a datalog yet but it's driving me nuts.

At this point I am considering demanding a refund from the tuner and taking my business to somewhere like e-tunez. Who cares if the car goes faster if it sucks to drive? Considering I paid $500 it's completely unacceptable. I have a busy life and I can't afford to waste time at their shop.

Ok, I went out on a drive and recorded a datalog. Drove it super hard. I think my suspicions were correct. 53 knock events by the end, and knock control reached 100%. Good lord. I'm tired, gonna deal with this tomorrow or something.

Happy new year lol. I have finally cracked the case on the idling/bogging issue! You won't believe what it was...

Under throttle parameters is a table for "throttle flow vs. opening". This is what it looked like on my tune: Here's what the default values should be: Now according to the help page this table shouldn't be changed unless you're running a bigger throttle body. Mine is stock, so their modified table was throwing everything out of whack! Not sure if it was a leftover from one of their basemaps or something? Regardless, just copypasted the default values over, relearned the idle, and it runs perfectly! No more bogging when returning to idle either! Can't believe this shit man.

Anyways, I'm having the tuner take another look at the car this Friday to address the knock control issues. They better cough up some real answers this time.

Good job figuring it out. It sucks it had to be you and not them. At least they are still in communication with you and are trying to make it right.

- Ed