Hondata

Hi guys,

My questions are simple enough this time:

1. What's the difference between the two Throttle Response options? Are they the same and just duplicated (ie. If I tick both, am I going to be having a wild throttle pedal?)

2. Is the increased fuel pressure option for highly tuned "built" vehicles or is this something new we've stumbled upon applicable to all 1.5Ts? (Or, insanely rich running stock vehicle?)

3. Still says "Canada 2020 Hatch MT" instead of US, but I've been told this is normal and to ignore it, so I am...

Thanks!

What is your ECU part number?

A31

Spunkster wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:11 am What is your ECU part number?

Update (and this might need a different thread now, because it all went bad haha):

So, 2021 Civic Sport Hatch MT, USA

1. Selected 2020 vehicle, 2018 ECU +9psi preset (2020 and 2021 share A31 ECU, FYI) Everything shows 2018 as the newest calibrations, so I'm guessing there's not much new.

2. In the "Mods" section, selected the following options. (Note the vehicle magically changed to a Canadian model up top.) 3. Saved calibration as shown. Note, again, Canada. Went ahead and did the whole thing (I've had a 2018 Hatch and a 2019 Accord 2.0T with FlashPros, let's assume I didn't mess up ha)

So after the flash, turn off IG, start car, and I have Brake System, LKAS, RDMS, CMBS, and ACC warnings in orange on the dash.
So I try again, reflash with FlashPro. Same story.
So I disconnect battery to reset (and double check ECU sticker while I'm there, it's still A31), did not help at all.
So maybe a drive will fix it? Kinda. Did maybe 2 miles down the road at 40mph, stopped at a red and restarted the car. All seems fixed.

As usual, the drive is night/day vs stock. So the calibration definitely stuck.

But at 5500rpm WOT getting on the highway, it fell on its face, to put it nicely. Started surging/hesitating as it struggled its way up to 6500, shift, all power is back and smooth.

Got off highway, did a few pulls, and the same jerky thing happens every time I go WOT to redline (half throttle up to 6500rpm, silky smooth.) And the last time I did it, it flashed the check engine light a few time (usually misfire when it blinks), throttle went away completely (not even reduced or limping, absolutely nothing), so I killed and restarted in neutral, drove home just fine.

No stored codes, according to the FlashPro, just really really doesn't like redline at WOT.

So, I guess my question is twofold:
1. Why the odd flashing experience of all the warning lights? Never seen it before. Canada ECU/FlashPro mismatch a possible issue? Seemed to fix itself after a short drive and restart, so I'm not super worried.
2. What would make it go crazy like that at WOT? The only thing different now since 2018 when I had the last Civic is:

A. 27WON Intake, stock MAF, and that option selected on Mods screen
B. Disabled the "artificial knock".

Sorry for the huge chunk of a story, just haven't had these issues before, hoping it's not a 2021 model year issue.

Thanks!

Please do not be concerned if it says 'Canada' for your vehicle. This is normal and nothing to be worried about.

The double improved throttle response is because the CVT and MT have different throttle tables and it is showing both - I'll fix this for the next release. So yes, check both so you are sure to get the MT throttle tables changed.

The dash lights are because the various sub systems (ABS, VSA etc) were upset about the ECU going off line while programming. Normally the key off and on sequence will clear the codes. If you get those error just upload again or drive a short distance. Without seeing your exact timing of the the key off & key on sequence I can't say exact what the cause was.

I'll wait until we release more information about the increased fuel pressure before answered that question. Increased fuel pressure only shortens the injector duration - you actually has less fuel available as the pressure rises. That is not the same as running lean. On a stock vehicle + bolts ons you're not going to see a problem either on stock fuel pressure or increased fuel pressure in any case.

Please post a datalog if you think there is a problem at high rpm with the vehicle.

Awesome information, thank you! I will attempt to get a datalog in action, then play whac a mole with the mods removing them one by one (27WON CAI, Artificial knock, etc.) and see if one of them is causing it.

Anything specific on the datalog to look at? AFM, Injectors...?

Thanks again!!

Hondata wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:32 pm Please do not be concerned if it says 'Canada' for your vehicle. This is normal and nothing to be worried about.

The double improved throttle response is because the CVT and MT have different throttle tables and it is showing both - I'll fix this for the next release. So yes, check both so you are sure to get the MT throttle tables changed.

The dash lights are because the various sub systems (ABS, VSA etc) were upset about the ECU going off line while programming. Normally the key off and on sequence will clear the codes. If you get those error just upload again or drive a short distance. Without seeing your exact timing of the the key off & key on sequence I can't say exact what the cause was.

I'll wait until we release more information about the increased fuel pressure before answered that question. Increased fuel pressure only shortens the injector duration - you actually has less fuel available as the pressure rises. That is not the same as running lean. On a stock vehicle + bolts ons you're not going to see a problem either on stock fuel pressure or increased fuel pressure in any case.

Please post a datalog if you think there is a problem at high rpm with the vehicle.

Hondata wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:32 pm Please post a datalog if you think there is a problem at high rpm with the vehicle.

Well, it does it every time, so getting the datalog took one pull and it killed the throttle and said "See Ya" until I restarted the car.

You can see in the datalog where TPedal stays WOT and TPlate suddenly goes away, and that's where the CEL started blinking and I obviously had no throttle until restarting. (Although still no stored codes, and it registered 3 knock counts in the pull.)

I noticed the A/F goes down under 9:1 at WOT, but I don't have a proper baseline comparison to see if that's normal.

Otherwise, nothing is jumping out at me. You can watch the RPMs go wonky above 5500 when you zoom in, flatlining or actually dropping while WOT.
Let me know what you think. It's a little monster until 5500, I want the next 1k haha.

Thanks,
Zac

Also, just looked at this. Are the first 3 Columns in the table supposed to be over 1000? They're very different on the "2020 Base A31" tune, and right in the area in blue is where the engine starts running like a pig...

Ignore the tables, the throttle, the CEL and everything else. Your fuel trims are way off. That's the problem.

The root cause is the AFM is not measuring the actual air flow accurately. You need to determine what part of the intake system is not working.

Hondata wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:09 pm Ignore the tables, the throttle, the CEL and everything else. Your fuel trims are way off. That's the problem.

The root cause is the AFM is not measuring the actual air flow accurately. You need to determine what part of the intake system is not working.

Interesting. I am seeing the -7% LTFT on that datalog now. In each new combo I flashed after, the LTFT starts and stays at 0% through the full drive (~5mins each). And the problem remained but never shut down the car or flashed the CEL, just really rough each time.

It only runs smooth to redline with the "2020 A31 base" with no mods (visibly more linear on the datalog). 2018 +9psi with no mods, still bad. So at least that rules out a hardware issue with the AFM or the intake being installed poorly (by me...)

I'll start adding back little bits to the 2020 A31 basemap and see what throws it over the edge.

In the meantime, if you enjoy doing remote vehicular troubleshooting from thousands of miles away on a weekend, feel free to browse these datalogs. Thanks again for all the help, really awesome and appreciated!

Run Immediately after datalog you viewed, only change is Artificial knock and throttle mods turned off: 2018 +9psi, no mods: 2020 A31 Base, no mods:

The AFM is not metering correctly in the A31 base map daialog. I stand by my diagnosis that it is the AFM reading.

It takes some time for the ECU to run closed loop 100% of the time but even on the short datalog in open loop the AF is not where it should be.

Well, I think I've narrowed it down. I think the CAI mod in the tune is doing the harm. This morning driving to work with full mods (Boost, CAI, Knock Disable, Rev Hang off, Throttle response) and it went into limp mode twice and I had to restart the car while coasting. (Note: This time it did store the engine codes, P0300-304 misfires, which we kinda knew.)

I checked the datalogs from my drive to work and the fuel trims are definitely all over the place and the long term was down to -7, short term jumpy.

Took the tune, removed the 27WON CAI mod, reflashed and drove it home (and I mean, I beat the crap out of it), and it was wildly improved, smooth to redline.

Maybe the 27WON Mod is too optimistic with the increased airflow and it's making the engine run rich because the air isn't really there? Not sure, but it's working great without the mod enabled.

Thanks again for all the diag help!

At a 75mph cruise your MAP is averaging 100 kPa which is not normal (what fuel mileage are you getting?)

With the intakes we tune them so then run zero fuel trims but none of the intakes use indexed couplers and so none of them give the same AFM reading as stock and so every installation runs differently.

I think you should go to the 'factory settings' calibration and then tune the AFM table to give good fuel trims first. But also consider that it could be something mechanical like a clogged cat.