Hi everyone, recently swapped a K24a2 into my FA5, need a basemap to get started with.
Pretty much all the internals are stock K24a2 (pistons, TSX cams) with the exception of a K20z3 head and accessories.
K20z3 oil pan and oil cooler
Non-Stop Tuning Pulley Set
K-Tuned Header w/ pipe and 3-inch Exhaust
Stock RBC Intake Manifold
K&N Typhoon SRI
Stock Injectors and Pump
I never put in lower than 93 Octane
Any tips and advice is also appreciated, pretty new to this.
Cheers
2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
Re: 2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
The tuning side is simple enough. The main questions we would need answers to...
You mention the internals are stock. So you swapped the TSX cams into the K20Z3 head? If so, you kept the 25* VTC wheel that was on those cams, or did you add a 50* VTC wheel?
Did you happen to do any clearance check for valve-to-piston clearance during the build? If you still have the 25* VTC wheel on the cam, I am pretty sure you would have plenty of clearance, but I don't know for sure. We can certainly tune it on 0* cam angle to get you running, but until we know the clearance of 25* VTC is fine I wouldn't want to take any chances on your engine unless you are comfortable with it.
I don't see where you added a Type S oil pump, so the rev limiter would be in the 7600rpm range.
Do you live in a climate where it gets really warm in the summer? If so, you have put a lot of work into this it looks like, the K&N intake is going to bring some really warm intake temps, especially in the summer. You might look into something like the Hybrid Racing CAI or the Skunk2 CAI to help regulate temps. Just mentioning it, if you are set on the K&N that's fine, it will hinder performance some with the constant warm temps is all.
You mention the internals are stock. So you swapped the TSX cams into the K20Z3 head? If so, you kept the 25* VTC wheel that was on those cams, or did you add a 50* VTC wheel?
Did you happen to do any clearance check for valve-to-piston clearance during the build? If you still have the 25* VTC wheel on the cam, I am pretty sure you would have plenty of clearance, but I don't know for sure. We can certainly tune it on 0* cam angle to get you running, but until we know the clearance of 25* VTC is fine I wouldn't want to take any chances on your engine unless you are comfortable with it.
I don't see where you added a Type S oil pump, so the rev limiter would be in the 7600rpm range.
Do you live in a climate where it gets really warm in the summer? If so, you have put a lot of work into this it looks like, the K&N intake is going to bring some really warm intake temps, especially in the summer. You might look into something like the Hybrid Racing CAI or the Skunk2 CAI to help regulate temps. Just mentioning it, if you are set on the K&N that's fine, it will hinder performance some with the constant warm temps is all.
-
XeroTech82
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:18 pm
Re: 2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
Oh wow i didn't expect a response so fast, thanks a ton.
I did keep the 25* VTC and had the clearance checked, so i am comfortable the 0* angle tuning.
As you said, I've not added the Type S oil pump, that's something i was going to do at another time. A solid 7500 RPM limit is fine with me for now, thank you.
I do live in Florida, so thanks for the tip on the SRI. I'm not set on it, it was simply the only bolt on the car came with when i bought it so i decided to keep it. I'll probably look into a K-Tuned CAI in the near future (I freaking love the exhaust they made, so i think i'll have majority K-tuned bolt-ons going forward).
For the VTC, do you recommend the 50* wheel? I do still have time to change that; this was more of a future prep, i won't be able to test the tune for a couple weeks.
Thanks again for the info, you're awesome.
I did keep the 25* VTC and had the clearance checked, so i am comfortable the 0* angle tuning.
As you said, I've not added the Type S oil pump, that's something i was going to do at another time. A solid 7500 RPM limit is fine with me for now, thank you.
I do live in Florida, so thanks for the tip on the SRI. I'm not set on it, it was simply the only bolt on the car came with when i bought it so i decided to keep it. I'll probably look into a K-Tuned CAI in the near future (I freaking love the exhaust they made, so i think i'll have majority K-tuned bolt-ons going forward).
For the VTC, do you recommend the 50* wheel? I do still have time to change that; this was more of a future prep, i won't be able to test the tune for a couple weeks.
Thanks again for the info, you're awesome.
Re: 2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
Okay good. If you kept the 25* wheel and had the clearance checked then we can utilize the full 25*. If you didn't have the clearance checked I would be a little worried, although seems like 40* and above becomes the issue from what I've read.
7500 on the limiter is fine. No need to risk anything, especially with all the work you've put into it so far.
The K-Tuned intake would be a great one, make sure to get the 3.5" variant so you can get everything out of your combo. Try to get the one with the cold air extension as well, then you could run it as a short ram in the winter if you want. I know you guys get some good rain right? With the RH and 3" exhaust, it will take advantage of the 3.5". I like K-Tuned products as well, they definitely seem to take the time for R&D and build a quality finished good. Since you like K-Tuned, have you put any thought into their 72mm throttle body? I recently tuned a full bolt on 8th gen that had the K-Tuned 72mm TB and he port matched the inlet on the RBC to 72mm to match. It was the highest hp 8th gen I've tuned by a good margin, with similar mods, the TB and port match definitely picked up. With that said, it did max his injectors. So if you do the TB and port match, I would highly recommend throwing in some RDX injectors. If you aren't really down to port match the manifold inlet to 72mm, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the K-Tuned TB simply because the manifold becomes a choke point. So keep that in mind. Or do the K-Tuned TB now, but at least plan to port match the manifold at some point. Though doing it all at one would be ideal of course. I have all the flow data that needs to be changed for the TB from K-Tuned, so it runs great, the guy I tuned that had it said it drives extremely smooth. The K-Tuned header is nice as well. I've tuned an 8th gen before and after the header, before being with a 3" pipe, and the K-Tuned header picked up a ton.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend the 50* wheel. I believe to do it right, you have to get a 50* wheel that has a mechanical limiter to 45*. If you're trying to do a max effort deal maybe go through all that trouble. But again, the clearance might be an issue. Do you know how much advance you checked the clearance up to? From a few things I read, it seems to max hp at about 40* VTC on your type setup. So you might be leaving a little bit on the table, but if you're just wanting to have fun and beat on it at will, I would just keep the 25* and keep it ultra safe. If you checked clearance up to at least 40*, then you could always go for it. The real tell tale sign will be how much you enjoy the car after getting tuned. If it runs as strong as you hoped, I would leave it alone and enjoy it with the 25* VTC wheel. From the sound of your willingness to leave the rev limiter at 7500, you sound like you just want to have fun with the car and enjoy it. Some guys want to set the internet on fire and talk about revving to the moon on their stock oil pump and blah blah blah. You don't strike me as that type...
Were you planning on running a wideband gauge in the car? If so, you can wire it into the ECU so it can be seen in datalogs. For me, or any tuner, we can use the wideband fuel reading to really dial in the AFR for you. Here is the link for more info, https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/i ... ectors.htm . I recently had a member on here that I helped who did this, and it made the tuning process very nice. The stock sensor corrected from Hondata was really close, but with the wideband reading in the datalogs the AFR can be dialed really well remotely. Obviously if you take to a local dyno tuner, they can use their own wideband in the tail pipe. Anyways, maybe give it some thought. And if you do, mount the wideband sensor near the stock primary sensor, but on the other side of the pipe on your K-Tuned header. Make sure neither are impeding the flow of the other sensor basically.
Yeah no problem, just keep me in the loop if you want some help from me. You might shoot me a PM when you get ready, just in case I miss any posts. Or if you have any questions you want to ask privately, just PM me.
7500 on the limiter is fine. No need to risk anything, especially with all the work you've put into it so far.
The K-Tuned intake would be a great one, make sure to get the 3.5" variant so you can get everything out of your combo. Try to get the one with the cold air extension as well, then you could run it as a short ram in the winter if you want. I know you guys get some good rain right? With the RH and 3" exhaust, it will take advantage of the 3.5". I like K-Tuned products as well, they definitely seem to take the time for R&D and build a quality finished good. Since you like K-Tuned, have you put any thought into their 72mm throttle body? I recently tuned a full bolt on 8th gen that had the K-Tuned 72mm TB and he port matched the inlet on the RBC to 72mm to match. It was the highest hp 8th gen I've tuned by a good margin, with similar mods, the TB and port match definitely picked up. With that said, it did max his injectors. So if you do the TB and port match, I would highly recommend throwing in some RDX injectors. If you aren't really down to port match the manifold inlet to 72mm, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the K-Tuned TB simply because the manifold becomes a choke point. So keep that in mind. Or do the K-Tuned TB now, but at least plan to port match the manifold at some point. Though doing it all at one would be ideal of course. I have all the flow data that needs to be changed for the TB from K-Tuned, so it runs great, the guy I tuned that had it said it drives extremely smooth. The K-Tuned header is nice as well. I've tuned an 8th gen before and after the header, before being with a 3" pipe, and the K-Tuned header picked up a ton.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend the 50* wheel. I believe to do it right, you have to get a 50* wheel that has a mechanical limiter to 45*. If you're trying to do a max effort deal maybe go through all that trouble. But again, the clearance might be an issue. Do you know how much advance you checked the clearance up to? From a few things I read, it seems to max hp at about 40* VTC on your type setup. So you might be leaving a little bit on the table, but if you're just wanting to have fun and beat on it at will, I would just keep the 25* and keep it ultra safe. If you checked clearance up to at least 40*, then you could always go for it. The real tell tale sign will be how much you enjoy the car after getting tuned. If it runs as strong as you hoped, I would leave it alone and enjoy it with the 25* VTC wheel. From the sound of your willingness to leave the rev limiter at 7500, you sound like you just want to have fun with the car and enjoy it. Some guys want to set the internet on fire and talk about revving to the moon on their stock oil pump and blah blah blah. You don't strike me as that type...
Were you planning on running a wideband gauge in the car? If so, you can wire it into the ECU so it can be seen in datalogs. For me, or any tuner, we can use the wideband fuel reading to really dial in the AFR for you. Here is the link for more info, https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/i ... ectors.htm . I recently had a member on here that I helped who did this, and it made the tuning process very nice. The stock sensor corrected from Hondata was really close, but with the wideband reading in the datalogs the AFR can be dialed really well remotely. Obviously if you take to a local dyno tuner, they can use their own wideband in the tail pipe. Anyways, maybe give it some thought. And if you do, mount the wideband sensor near the stock primary sensor, but on the other side of the pipe on your K-Tuned header. Make sure neither are impeding the flow of the other sensor basically.
Yeah no problem, just keep me in the loop if you want some help from me. You might shoot me a PM when you get ready, just in case I miss any posts. Or if you have any questions you want to ask privately, just PM me.
-
stephonsFG2
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 7:47 am
Re: 2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
I am in a similar situation. I have a k24a2 in my 09 si. Only mods are rbc intake, 50vtc, type s oil pump. I'm wanting to be on the safer side with this motor but still be able to occasionally have some fun when wanted. I'm looking for a basemap to start off with, and I can do some tweaking to it until I can get time to go to a proper tuner.
Re: 2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
Did you put a 50* VTC with a mechanical limiter (pinned) at 45*?stephonsFG2 wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 10:40 am I am in a similar situation. I have a k24a2 in my 09 si. Only mods are rbc intake, 50vtc, type s oil pump. I'm wanting to be on the safer side with this motor but still be able to occasionally have some fun when wanted. I'm looking for a basemap to start off with, and I can do some tweaking to it until I can get time to go to a proper tuner.
Did you check for valve clearances with the 50* VTC to see what the max clearance is?
Are you driving on a tune right now, or waiting for one?
-
stephonsFG2
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 7:47 am
Re: 2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
No I didn’t get it pinned nor did we check the valve clearance when we put everything together. Waiting on a tune, flashpro should be arriving tomorrow actually.
Re: 2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
Gotcha. Without it pinned you won't be able to effectively tune it safely. If the VTC rotates it beyond 45* it can cause damage, which is why you want a pinned one. Without a pinned VTC wheel and checking for clearance, there is no way to know your max cam angle you can run without causing valve clearance issues.
If you upload a tune to your Flashpro, make sure you set the cam angle map to 0* on both the low and high cam until you find someone who will tune it without a pinned VTC. Make sure your tuner has your best interest in mind as well so you don't have any issues. Setting the max angle in the tune to 40* doesn't mean it won't go over that for a brief moment. By leaving the cam angle map on 0*, your odds are very little of having an issue like that, if not impossible.
If you upload a tune to your Flashpro, make sure you set the cam angle map to 0* on both the low and high cam until you find someone who will tune it without a pinned VTC. Make sure your tuner has your best interest in mind as well so you don't have any issues. Setting the max angle in the tune to 40* doesn't mean it won't go over that for a brief moment. By leaving the cam angle map on 0*, your odds are very little of having an issue like that, if not impossible.
-
SARAVIA503
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:11 am
Re: 2009 Civic Si K20/24 Frank Basemap
XeroTech82 wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 6:45 am Hi everyone, recently swapped a K24a2 into my FA5, need a basemap to get started with.
Pretty much all the internals are stock K24a2 (pistons, TSX cams) with the exception of a K20z3 head and accessories.
K20z3 oil pan and oil cooler
Non-Stop Tuning Pulley Set
K-Tuned Header w/ pipe and 3-inch Exhaust
Stock RBC Intake Manifold
K&N Typhoon SRI
Stock Injectors and Pump
I never put in lower than 93 Octane
Any tips and advice is also appreciated, pretty new to this.
Cheers