Weird ignition timing after 7000rpm

[Piv]

Hello, I've got a S2000 S/C with a weird problem

Basically, it doesn't seem to follow the ignition timing I told him to do after 7000-7500

I've removed all the ignition compensations, the knock sensor is disabled but as soon as the car get to 7000-7500 when the boost still climbing (around 14psi) the ignition instead of still be pulled back, climb back up for no obvious reason, I tried to removed some degrees on the whole table and it did work before 7000rpm but then after it went back to where it was !

Here the log and the map (It's a quick map made from scratch to see if my basemap wasn't corrupted)

If you can see anything please let me know, never had that problem before !

Thanks,

Piv

[Spunkster]

Please read the help file: http://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/kn ... k%2Bsensor

[Piv]

Thanks for your reply, but on the log I've put on here the knock sensor is actually enable and it still doing exactly the same

I've tried with and without, I move the sensivity etc...there is NO ignition compensation on that run (not from what I can see anyway) but the car isn't taking the ignition timing from the table I wrote

[Spunkster]

http://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/kn ... %2Bcontrol

Caution should be exercised when changing the knock ignition limit table - if any negative values are increased (ie made closer to zero or made positive), then the ECU will advance the ignition by that amount.

This appears to be what is happening when looking at a datalog.

[Piv]

From what I understand, if the value is actually positive in the knock ignition limit table and the ECU doesn't see knock, it will add that amount to the base ignition table to give the final ignition timing

This may be what's happening here but then : why does it add so much more ignition timing when the values are no more than 3 degrees ? (It's actually adding more than 16degrees to the main table !)

I understood that I need to put the knock ignition limit table to 0 when on boost but I still don't get why it add me so much ignition timing and why the value seem to stay around 12-14deg after 7k @ 1bar even with the knock sensor disabled (didn't seem to do anything)

This supercharger on the S2k is super noisy and I'd like to rely on what I can hear and not what the ECU can see at least while I'm tuning the car, is there anyway to disable the knock sensor completely ?

[Spunkster]

We are looking into this to see if we can reproduce what you are describing.

[Piv]

Hello, any news at the minute ?

Thank you,

Piv

[Spunkster]

nothing yet

[Hondata]

As per the help file, please do not disable the knock sensor. I suspect this is the cause of the different, but we are testing on a SC S2000 to verify.

Also, positive values in the knock ignition limit table are never added to the ignition.

[Piv]

As per the help file, please do not disable the knock sensor. I suspect this is the cause of the different, but we are testing on a SC S2000 to verify.

Also, positive values in the knock ignition limit table are never added to the ignition.

Hello, on the log, the knock sensor is actually enable, with or without the knock sensor it did unforntunately exactly the same problem :(

[Piv]

Anything coming up ?

[Spunkster]

we are still looking into this

[Hondata]

We have not been able to reproduce this yet, but are working on getting a higher boost vehicle for more testing.

There is a possibility that the gear ignition compensation tables are causing the problem. We have prepared a release of FlashProManager with the gear ignition compensation tables disabled, available for download here:

[Hondata]

We put a car on the dyno yesterday and again could not reproduce this.

Can anyone with the problem try these test steps to narrow down the issue:

- Make sure the knock sensor is enabled and working.
- Set your knock sensitivity tables to default.
- Disable all live tuning.
- Set the knock ignition limit tables to all the same value for the low cam and a different value for the high cam. eg 20 for the low cam and 10 for the high cam. If any values were increased from negative then your overall timing will increase, so it probably is best to decrease the ignition tables by 3-4 degrees to ensure there is no knock.
- Do a pull. The knock ignition limit as datalogged should be within 5 degrees of whatever values you set for the low cam, and change to the high cam values at VTEC.
- Keep any calibrations and datalogs together so that we can correlate the datalog to calibration.

Thanks.

[Hondata]

Update: we have identified the cause of this problem. There are minimum ignition timing tables (by rpm) which give 9-12 degrees advance at the rpm you mention. We have added these tables to the next update 1.3.2.

Sorry about the time it took to narrow this down, but when we could not reproduce this on our vehicle we had to build a custom testing rig to replicate the conditions, and that took some time.