08 FA5 fbo progress

[sam.witte7@gmail.com]

I found a somewhat local shop that flow tests/matches and cleans injectors for $20 a piece. Would it make sense to throw a little bit more money at these potentially fake injectors to confirm they’re not great? If they aren’t good I’m out $150, if they are good I don’t have to spend $350 for known good ones. I don’t know what to think anymore.

[EFICU]

It's all a gamble because even if they are flow matched, you most likely have cheap quality injectors that aren't calibrations properly and may be unreliable for the long term. It's totally up to you though, if the flow match doesn't work, then you're out $230 for the fake ones. You could take that $80 and put it towards known OEM RDX injectors. If the injector shop seems legit though, you might ask their opinion and see if they have an opinion or can inspect them for overall quality during their flow match.

The only thing I can say, if the car I worked on which I believe had fake ones installed were fake, we will never be able to get the AFR dialed. On the 9th gen I believe had fakes RDXs, say the datalog showed I needed to add 10% fuel, I would add 10% then it would be off by 5% on the rich side. So i would pull 5% and would be 8% lean. There was never a 1:1 change in the data when I would make a change. With stock injectors or RDXs, if I add 10% where it wants it, it's usually right on or within 2% of target. With those fakes RDXs, my changes would be off by 5% and would never hit target. I would assume because of the flow and control of them.

Believe me I don't like seeing you guys spend money on stuff that doesn't make the car more fun to drive, I'm just trying to make sure you get the best product I can. You can always try to get OEM used RDXs from a local wrecking yard to you. If they have an engine, or a core engine, they would be willing to take them off for you. Used OEM would be better than the fake ones IMO, but it's all up to you. I'll try to make the best of whatever we end up with.

The datalogs look like it will be around 92% with the ECU adding 8% fuel for super cold temps. So I'm not sure you have to have them, as mentioned, we can lean it out to 13.1-13.2 for the cold too which takes some pressure off the injectors. Once we see the next datalog we will have a better idea.

[sam.witte7@gmail.com]

I get what you're saying. Its more of a control issue, not a pattern deal. I'll get ahold of our used parts place tomorrow at work and see what I can come up with. Take all 8 to the injector place and see what's what. Best case scenario I have a spare set.

I have downloaded/saved datalog0021 at least a half dozen times now and I cannot find it anywhere on my computer. Here is some driving and then the 3rd gear pull. If that little bit of driving isn't enough I can probably go back out tonight, if not tomorrow morning.

[EFICU]

Yeah you just don't know the quality of the electronics inside the fake injector themselves, so it makes it tough to dial it in or for longevity. OEM Honda quality is hard to rival with aftermarket parts. Believe me I understand money is tight for people and everything right now is super expensive, the last thing I want you to do is go spend money you don't have to. I can get you a list of used RDX engines in your area if you need it, just let me know.

Overall that datalog looked great. I went ahead and blended everything out for good now, so take this one for a spin and shoot for the 20 minute range again, and at least one WOT pull in third gear. But feel free to have more fun with it if you want, it's plenty safe to have fun with. Also, injectors duty was at 90% with intake temps at 55*. So that is technically okay at that temp, and it was a couple percent rich. So again, we'll keep an eye on it as we go here. But yeah, this will be overall what it will feel like now with all the cam angles built, see what you think.

Your tables allow for a broad range for vtec, I set it at 4000 on the lower threshold since you mentioned liking at low in a previous revision. I'm sure you know, but with it set at 4000 that doesn't mean it will kick on every time you hit that rpm. If you play with throttle input, you will find it takes a lot of throttle for vtec to kick in at 4000. Other than, if you drive above 4000 at part throttle it won't kick on, that's the beauty of i-Vtec. But test it out, we can certainly move it up some to anywhere between 4000-4500.

WitteS.SD.V2.Rev08 (Blended)(Vtec4000).fpcal

[sam.witte7@gmail.com]

Realistically 4500 is probably a better call. Seems to run pretty well, wet roads here so not a ton of fun.

[EFICU]

Overall it looks great. I went ahead and moved vtec up to 4500 for you. I also made some slight cam angle adjustments, nothing major.

Duty cycle maxed at 89% with the AFR at 12.8. So it looks like you'll definitely be fine while you decide on your injector choice. We will see how it looks in the next really cold day, with the temps as 55* you're looking okay.

Take this one for a spin when you can.

WitteS.SD.V2.Rev09 (Blended)(Vtec4500).fpcal

[sam.witte7@gmail.com]

Today was a fluke. Warmed up just to melt it all. Rain turning to snow overnight :(

[EFICU]

Mother nature has a mind of her own. All the temp compensations look good throughout the temps, so that's good. If you want to wait until the next super cold time to make a datalog feel free, you don't have to run out and make one if the temps aren't super cold unless you want to. Whatever you decide, we'll see how it looks either way.

[sam.witte7@gmail.com]

So I was looking at the DW injectors, they have a 450 and 550 that are both in the same price range of the RDX’s. Realistically, end game this will supercharged. I don’t see that happening for a few years though. What’re your thoughts?

[EFICU]

If you want one injector for now and for boost, you would want to go with 1000cc. Pretty much all boost packages for SC and turbo recommend 1000s to cover all boost levels. If you do with 550s, you may not be able to hit the boost you want. And being SC'd, you'd have to change pulleys to lower the boost to keep it safe. Or you could be just under max with 550s at the boost you want which isn't good either. The 1000s would give you plenty of room to be safe at just about whatever boost level you would realistically throw at it.

If you go with 1000s, or bigger injectors that aren't RDXs, I would recommend you get it dyno tuned from someone who has a lot of experience with large injectors. I can get it running and driving, but I don't have any seat time with them to work out cold start and drivability to the level I want. WOT stuff is straightforward, but the part throttle injector stuff and cold start adjustments I just don't have any time with to make it right for you. Again, we can get it running and driving, but I don't know that it would be as smooth as it is right now is all.

[sam.witte7@gmail.com]

My boss also mentioned putting in the other injectors I have and seeing if you can see if they react correctly. I’m not sure if that is a logical answer though.

[EFICU]

I guess you could. Problem is, if one cylinder isn't providing the proper amount of fuel to that cylinder (as that link I sent you outlines) you can be running very lean without even knowing it. Granted you can have that issue anyways, but the likelihood of that using OEM Honda parts is very low. If the one 9th gen I worked with did in fact have fake RDXs as I believe it did, the only way I can tell is by always missing the fuel target over and over. Meaning it says to add 5%, so we add 5%, then the tune is off by 3% the other way, meaning an 8% swing. Take away 3%, then it's 5% lean, something like that. When you make a fuel adjustments of say 5%, you should be within 1% of target in the next datalog. With fake RDXs that aren't working properly, the inconsistent fuel delivery means whatever we add or subtract for fuel isn't accurate because the injectors are always firing a different amount of fuel. When you have consistent OEM RDX injectors, you can be very confident things are working right and adjustments made to the tune are reflected in the results of those changes.

Another thing is long term like we talked about before. I would maybe show your boss the website for fake RDX injectors I posted for you and see what he would do it if it's his car. In the end, you can try them if you'd like, I'll help you as best I can. If it starts to act like bad injectors I'll let you know.

You could also find a local Honda/Acura wrecking yard, call them and ask if they have any RDX injectors they can sell you. Most engines are sold and a long block, so a wrecking yard would be willing to sell injectors off them or a core engine perhaps.

[sam.witte7@gmail.com]

Well I pulled the trigger, Hybrid Racing will have them to me sometime next week. Gotta love payday!

[EFICU]

Sounds good, sorry you had to do that. When you upgrade your injectors there will be people looking for used RDXs and if I have a guy that needs them I can have them contact you if you want. It sucks that people go out of their way to make fake fuel injectors. I've seen the ads on eBay and it's ridiculous how they market them as OEM and all the BS they put on there. I guess eBay can't police everything, but it sucks they are allowed to sell them on there and pose them to be OEM.

Once they come in, let me know and I will send you the first file for the RDXs. You'll want to upload that calibration before the first start and drive.

[sam.witte7@gmail.com]

Sounds good, sorry you had to do that. When you upgrade your injectors there will be people looking for used RDXs and if I have a guy that needs them I can have them contact you if you want. It sucks that people go out of their way to make fake fuel injectors. I've seen the ads on eBay and it's ridiculous how they market them as OEM and all the BS they put on there. I guess eBay can't police everything, but it sucks they are allowed to sell them on there and pose them to be OEM.

Once they come in, let me know and I will send you the first file for the RDXs. You'll want to upload that calibration before the first start and drive.

You know what they say, “if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.” My own fault. Hopefully I’ll have them early next week.