Hondata

Awesome!! I'll load the cal right before work tomorrow! It's good to know I'm on the right track!

Also would there be a way for me to see how much you changed the fueling like how much percent or?

The fuel adjustments were so small, probably not. Haha... Actually you can, if you open the calibration, click on the 25* table, that will show you where it was before my changes and then click on the 10* for the current. Click back and forth between the 10* and 25* fuel tables and will see a little difference. It was really close though.

I can do copy and paste and it'll show changes just not amounts of course 😂 but it'll do like green and red for up and down or whatever

Yes it will show the red and green. But honestly clicking back and forth you'll see how small it is. But you're right, no way to show how much. I think the biggest change I made was maybe 4-5% at the most. It was really close. Which is why starting and tuning the 0* cam angle is so important. You're essentially copy and pasting that 0* in the 10* table and then tune it. Well I add fuel on the cam angle changes as we move up, only because I sort of know how demand changes. But yeah, when guys try to tune multiple cam angles at once it makes things difficult for sure. Some people just don't want to take the time.

Hey here is the next datalog i notice there is like a lone -11 and for the rest all i see is a group of negatives in the bottom right for the rest looks pretty good to me except for the knock of course xD im intrigued to see what you all do!

EFICU wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 9:16 pm Yes it will show the red and green. But honestly clicking back and forth you'll see how small it is. But you're right, no way to show how much. I think the biggest change I made was maybe 4-5% at the most. It was really close. Which is why starting and tuning the 0* cam angle is so important. You're essentially copy and pasting that 0* in the 10* table and then tune it. Well I add fuel on the cam angle changes as we move up, only because I sort of know how demand changes. But yeah, when guys try to tune multiple cam angles at once it makes things difficult for sure. Some people just don't want to take the time.

Ah ok thats cool! do you just know how much to do based on pure experience? also do you tune for a living or did you just learn this for yourself and started doing it here?

Yeah overall it looks great. You'll get some really low values in those far left columns simply because they are the area where injector shut off on decel. But that cell did have 150 ish samples, so you can actually use that data. If that cell only had a couple samples, I would ignore that values. Average data is what we want.

The more you do this the more you see trends. So yeah, I used to tune the 0* cam angle and then paste that into the next cam angle to get us started. That would leave a slightly lean WOT fuel which isn't an issue, but I know some guys worry so I started to notice trends in fuel demand as I moved up in cam angle. So I now do that and add fuel as I see the trends tell me just so guys can have peace of mind. If I didn't, you would see like a 14 afr or so, which if guys are watching on their laptops might panic. Which isn't bad in the short term, but I still try to treat your cars as if they are mine. I don't do it for a living, I care to much about the work to make a living at it. I won't go into detail about what that means exactly, but you can probably catch my drift. To make money at this, you sort of have to be looking through the current car and how to get to the next one quickly. I simply can't do that. Some guys send a tip here and there, but I don't focus on the money at all.

So we'll move onto the 25* cam angle now with vtec at 5500 again. Take this one for a spin when you can, we're almost to the point of blending it out and finding where vtec should be happiest.

Alright here is the latest datalog its a bit long but hopfully its good!

Huh thats cool! yea i bet over time you learn things to make it better and easier! so did you just learn this through basically google research or did you take a EFI course of some sort! its awesome what you do for all these guys! to give each person a good safe tune! yes its not max power and dyno tuned but it makes things fun for the guys that dont care about max power they just want to enable their car based on the mods they do! And most of all make it safe! to be totally honest id love to do basically what you are doing here on the forum im just on the bottom of the learning pole xD Id love to learn where i can! i just learn slow which kinda sucks so i guess ill just have to slowly keep at it xD

Also i was messing around google sheets and i kinda figured out how to find what kinda of percentages and changes you made so thats cool!!

Yeah just like average data for adjustments, you see trends from cars to cars over time. While some cars are very similar, almost all of them have their own little quirks. Yes I took some courses from people who I think are the top of the industry. Which is good and bad, because I can't get myself to take the short route because they showed me the proper route, meaning to tune each cam angle one by one. Granted if guys have more mods planned soon, then I go the short route. But if mods are set for a period of time, I recommend to them that we tune the long route. If I could give one piece of advice to people wanting to tune their cars, start on the 0* cam angle for high and low cam and tune that until you're happy with it. Then copy and paste it into the next cam angle up, then tune that angle, and so on and so on. It really does simplify the process and provide the most optimized tune for your car.

I enjoy helping guys on here, although I never meant for it to turn into this. It seems like there are more people coming on here now than when I started, but that's good that guys are buying Hondata products. You'd be surprised how close you can get to peak HP when tuning the proper route. I've had a few guys I helped get ready for the dyno who had the tuner make a base pull on my calibration. As of right now, I've been as close as 3hp with a high of 8hp. You'd be surprised how reading the fuel demand from properly tuned fuel tables mimics that of a dyno. Granted it may not be 100%, but to be as close as I have been makes me pretty happy. Not to mention my stuff is tuned for the street, so I like to think part throttle driving is a little better than a dyno tune only. I'm just a regular guy though, I realize I'm a nobody in this world. If I can help a few guys enjoy their cars and not have to stress, then that makes me happy and worth the effort.

That's cool you figured out how to look it over. You can probably do it via Excel too. The fuel tuning stuff is actually very simple based on Hondata's architecture. It's the settings in the background to get the ECU to command and act how you want which takes some learning. But fuel tuning, honestly, it's incredibly easy.

So we're looking good man. We will now do the 25* cam angle with vtec at 4000 again. This is the last one, so once I get a datalog back I will build out the cam angle mapping and all that. So we're close, we'll see how the next one looks.

here is the next datalog!

What courses did you take? and do you think there are some places to learn this for free (basically just doing google digging)? Im thinking to the first time you told me about the WOT settings i looked at them and was like ok i see the values and see whats happening but what do i do to them xD xD
(i was kinda naive i guess xD)

Huh by you never meaning it to turn into this being a good thing or a bad thing? cause i can understand that doing this can lead to being pretty busy xD and kinda annoying for free too. huh yea i guess dyno tuning is kinda just a easier/different way of doing things but it all boils down to the same idea being more air more fuel thus more power xD. Yea the street tuning part is a really good aspect a friend of mine had his car tuned on a dyno but when he drove it home it had some issues and threw it into (Lymph mode? or is it limp i dunno) Honestly the fact that your doing this for people just out of your willingness to help is awesome! You wanting to just give guys a peace of mind on their cars that they just want to mod out is great! Doing that in my opinion makes that more than just a nobody (case in point the "dear EFICU" thread xD)

Yea i was thinking excel but i dont have it on my laptop so sheets was the next place to go xD yea the fuel stuff on the baseline is simple at the core but the experience in knowing where and how to make changes i believe is integral.

Also in reference to the most recent datalog i am noticing that we have some fuel readings of -20 or -13 or something in column 2 how worried about that are we and how do we tune the decel columns and the ones we dont have readings for?

As far as free information, you have to be careful with what you find. I tell everyone to take what you find with a grain of salt, even the things I say. Some other forums I've seen, the information is very concerning because some people think they understand when they don't. Sort of like enabling auto tune using the MAF sensor for a big tube intake that has to be tuned speed density using the MAP sensor. It will never find a happy fuel table because the MAF sensor can't ready properly. That's like tuning with a bad o2 sensor. So just be careful. Hondata provides a help manual you can look through that provides a lot of good information.

For paid courses, you would want to look into High Performance Academy in New Zealand, and Evans Performance Academy.

So for FlashPro manager, you need to go in and setup the settings portion of the program so that the fuel recommendations are accurate. If you have it in stock form, it might not be setup to show variance from our desired afr target. As I mentioned before, be sure that the cells you're looking at have a reasonable amount of data sampled or else don't use that data to make a change. Usually you want at least 50 samples to make an adjustments in a cell. Also, the big one people may not notice, for the WOT pulls, you need to trim the datalog to quarantine (bad word) just the third gear pull. You don't want to make WOT fuel adjustments in a complete 20 minute datalog. After you've saved the datalog, you then want to go in and at the beginning of the pull right click and hit new start, then click at the end of the pull and right click then hit set new end. Then save that datalog as Rev06WOT or whatever the revision is. Then reopen that saved datalog as Rev06 WOT. Once you open that third gear WOT trimmed datalog it will only have the data from that clean pull. You don't want to be making WOT fuel adjustments with a bunch of random gear pulls while you're out having fun. You want the sweep from a long clean pull only. Sort of like you see on a dyno. Either that or, make a datalog, then make a datalog of just a clean third gear pull if trimming is confusing. Once you do that, and have your setting in FlashPro right, the fuel adjustments couldn't be an easier. You can plug in the value it says, or once you get used to it you can look at the actual AFR and make your own adjustments. So if it says 4% lean, you can probably go 3.5% and just about hit the target. The more you play with it, the more you find that stuff. For reference, you can have cells next to each other, one says 2% lean and the next cell might say 3% lean. When you look at the AFR in those cells, the 2% lean might be 13.6, and the 4% lean might be 13.8. It's just a matter of percentage from target. So as you get comfortable with it, you realize you won't want to add 2% in one and 3% in the other because they are so close, so you give them the same fuel add. Things like that, you learn over time. Starting out though, add the fuel it says too if the settings are right and you can get it close quickly, then lean to fine tune.

When I first started helping out it was only a car here and there, right now I have 30 cars in my current customer file, and over 200 in my past file. I didn't mean for it to become this much help. I just thought if I can help a couple guys here and there that would be cool. Now I've done just about every combo we can do on these. I'm actually glad my focus isn't about the money in someones pocket, but more about helping people. There is a cancer in this tuning stuff when money becomes the focus and not the respect for the person you're working with. You would be absolutely surprised if you could see some of the things I've seen in tunes from places you would think are giving you a top tier product. I can tell when I open some of these tunes whether the tuner cared about your money, or you the customer. Sadly it's your money. When I say that, I just mean that things are bypassed, turned off, or simply just giving a one size fits all tune. Once you understand tuning cam angle by cam angle, then you see a tune that couldn't be further from that, it drives you nuts. But yeah, most tuners don't run through the cam angles like I do with you guys. Whether it's an e-tune or a dyno tune, most of the time they are a preset tune, clean up some fuel and ignition and send you.

Dyno tuning is a great tool, but if the only thing being tuned is WOT, then what are you getting? How often do you go WOT in your car compared to part throttle? If all someones cares about is WOT then yeah it's great, or a race car. Some dyno tuners do tune part throttle on the dyno, but in my experience they are few and far between. Your friend is a perfect example though and shows what drives me nuts. To me, there needs to be a respect for your own work. When I tune for guys, I am always challenging my inner self to make it as good as I can. There are a lot of times I make half percent adjustments here and there just because I'm OCD and always trying to get it good for my own sake. As far as being a nobody, I just mean in the tuning world mostly. But you're right, there have been some posts lately and the thread you mention that have definitely made me feel pretty good. I'm just glad guys feel like they have an option when they buy a Hondata product to get started quickly. But yeah, it's definitely a good feeling when people are excited for you to work with them. That is the biggest thing I never expected when I started helping.

We are making adjustments on those large rich values. As we move up in cam angle, you will have leaner areas, and richer areas. It's just how the cam angles work. Which shows you how important cam angle mapping is important how well the VTC system works so we can have so many cam profiles using it. When you don't have readings in columns 1-2, you sort of just blend over from column 3 and make it close. Being on decel, the injectors are shut off anyways, so there isn't much fuel adjustment needed. But yeah, the big values will be gone. You also have to make sure you have your fuel settings right in FlashPro to get the proper table data. You will see in this next one, all the part throttle fuel should be super close, along with the WOT. But now is when we fine tune, I've blended the tables out now.

So with that said, I've gone in an blended out the cam angle map. It's definitely an interesting cam angle map based on the fuel demand. We might end up trying a few different part throttle cam angle maps, but this first one is based strictly on the data. My brain wants to make it a little different, but going by the data is a good start. So take this one for a spin and feel free to have some fun with it. Vtec appears to be happy at 4700. Shoot for 20 minutes still, and at least one third gear pull, but feel free to make other pulls if you want.

here is the next datalog ill reply to the msg later xD sorry this took so long xD

No problem. It looks really good. I made some small WOT fuel adjustments, everything else looked great. Take this one for a spin when you can.