2008 Si Sedan map suggestions please and thank you

[afauser]

I'm sure it's a combo of parts and cams. Honestly could be a number of things. It shows you that the more you know, the less you know. Haha. I used the strategy from your car thinking I had found a strategy for higher elevation cars, but then it didn't work on his. It's definitely something I will keep in the back of my mind though moving forward. It's always good to learn something new you might be able to utilize on all these cars. Yeah the TSX has a ridiculously high vtec RPM as well. Shows you why having it tuned is important for getting the most out of it safely, and why a one size fits all basemap isn't ideal.

That's good that it's smooth at 3600. That is why I keep the cam angle smooth with no large jumps, that way the cam angle can follow the cam commanded nicely. When you have large jumps in cam angle, it makes things a little jerky.

Yeah the knock that showed up is in a couple new areas, so again they are probably just random ones, but I went in and made some changes. I also added the sport pedal map in this next one. We're in a good place for you to see what you think about it. Take this one for a spin when you can and see if you noticed much of a difference with the pedal map.

afauser.SD.V2HR.Rev10 (Blended)(Vtec3600)(Sport).fpcal

I wonder if you had two of the same cars with the same mods and how the tunes would be. I'm sure they would be close but I also think there would be some differences if you really got into the nitty gritty of it all. Then send them to different elevations and see how they would perform. Be interesting to see. I do remember taking my old sedan through the mountains and it did seem gutless due to the higher elevation.

I'll drive this one for a few days and see how things go. I had a couple knocks pop up on a short trip from the store but I wasn't running a log at the time. My drives are usually 10-15 minutes. Work and most places I go to are quite close to home so no real chance to test it out yet. Thanks

[EFICU]

I wonder if you had two of the same cars with the same mods and how the tunes would be. I'm sure they would be close but I also think there would be some differences if you really got into the nitty gritty of it all. Then send them to different elevations and see how they would perform. Be interesting to see. I do remember taking my old sedan through the mountains and it did seem gutless due to the higher elevation.

I'll drive this one for a few days and see how things go. I had a couple knocks pop up on a short trip from the store but I wasn't running a log at the time. My drives are usually 10-15 minutes. Work and most places I go to are quite close to home so no real chance to test it out yet. Thanks

Two cars with the same mods are very similar, but different in some areas. The basemap I start guys on now seems to be very close for all mods, intake only, and FBO cars. It's a file I smoothed out from a car with an HR intake, BERK HFC, and stock catback. Then I sort of smoothed everything out to make it clean to start on. It's made things a lot easier to get you guys going and remove the worry of having someone start on a file and worry about how close it would be. I think I started using it probably fifteen cars ago, and all have started off very well with it. So the cars are very close, but the big thing is getting the cam angle map right. When I tune these one cam angle at a time, I always use the data to get the best cam angle map possible. Too much or too little VTC and you leave some performance on the table. More isn't always better, kind of like having vtec too low, it doesn't mean you will make more power with it super low. Yeah at elevation you just run out of air, well thinner air. Less air, less fuel, less power. Unless you have boost, then crank up the boost. Haha, not quite that easy, but you know what I mean.

Yeah see how it goes. We'll keep looking for knock and work on removing it. Sometimes there are pesky areas, and I try to creep up on them instead of just pulling a bunch of timing from the start. We'll get it though.

[afauser]

Two cars with the same mods are very similar, but different in some areas. The basemap I start guys on now seems to be very close for all mods, intake only, and FBO cars. It's a file I smoothed out from a car with an HR intake, BERK HFC, and stock catback. Then I sort of smoothed everything out to make it clean to start on. It's made things a lot easier to get you guys going and remove the worry of having someone start on a file and worry about how close it would be. I think I started using it probably fifteen cars ago, and all have started off very well with it. So the cars are very close, but the big thing is getting the cam angle map right. When I tune these one cam angle at a time, I always use the data to get the best cam angle map possible. Too much or too little VTC and you leave some performance on the table. More isn't always better, kind of like having vtec too low, it doesn't mean you will make more power with it super low. Yeah at elevation you just run out of air, well thinner air. Less air, less fuel, less power. Unless you have boost, then crank up the boost. Haha, not quite that easy, but you know what I mean.

Yeah see how it goes. We'll keep looking for knock and work on removing it. Sometimes there are pesky areas, and I try to creep up on them instead of just pulling a bunch of timing from the start. We'll get it though.

Sounds like that start file you use is like my car more or less other than the cams. Also sounds like that file has done you well so far. Still boggles me a bit as to why my car seems to be happy with such a low VTEC point. If it works, great. I'm not going to complain. But as you said. What works for one car may not work for another.

Drove this Revision 10 map. Overall it seems to be really happy. I'm sure the car knows when I am not running a low though. Twice now it has counted 3 knocks fairly quickly then stops. Its weird. lol When I am running a log I can see one or come up during the drive. I went for a quick drive last night and was able to do a WOT pull. I have uploaded the 2 logs from last night. They are short though. 6-7 minutes for each of them. The B log does have a knock and I think when that one happened it is similar situation to where I saw the 3 count quickly. I think so anyway. Thank you

[EFICU]

Yeah it's definitely helped out a lot to have a good base. And one that starts with a clean slate for each person. Your can shows every car needs it's own attention and strategy in most cases.

When the ECU records knock, the knock control value will rise which triggers the ECU implement more knock retard in that area until it sees no knock for some time and then it stops doing that. Honda built it to do that both in the short term and long term. If that area is persistent, the ECU will proactively pull timing in that area of the map. Not sure that is exactly what is happening, but it could be, and shows how smart the system is compared to other manufacturers.

The knock in the B datalog is the absolute most sensitive area, and during a 6th gear WOT pull like you did. Going WOT in 6th gear at 2800rpms is not something Honda intended for people to do, haha. It simply won't accelerate much at all, and it throws the load values very high so the ignition has to be very low there to avoid knock. I addressed that area some more in this next one for you. Fueling looked good, but I addressed both knock areas you had.

afauser.SD.V2HR.Rev11 (Blended)(Vtec3600)(Sport).fpcal

[afauser]

Yeah it's definitely helped out a lot to have a good base. And one that starts with a clean slate for each person. Your can shows every car needs it's own attention and strategy in most cases.

When the ECU records knock, the knock control value will rise which triggers the ECU implement more knock retard in that area until it sees no knock for some time and then it stops doing that. Honda built it to do that both in the short term and long term. If that area is persistent, the ECU will proactively pull timing in that area of the map. Not sure that is exactly what is happening, but it could be, and shows how smart the system is compared to other manufacturers.

The knock in the B datalog is the absolute most sensitive area, and during a 6th gear WOT pull like you did. Going WOT in 6th gear at 2800rpms is not something Honda intended for people to do, haha. It simply won't accelerate much at all, and it throws the load values very high so the ignition has to be very low there to avoid knock. I addressed that area some more in this next one for you. Fueling looked good, but I addressed both knock areas you had.

afauser.SD.V2HR.Rev11 (Blended)(Vtec3600)(Sport).fpcal

That is quite interesting on what the ECU does with knock and monitoring. The knock control number makes a little more sense now and how/why it reduces the number. It just confirms what I thought it did. When I did see a knock arise I would try to drive in that general area/way to see if the number would change. Within reason of course.

Oh frig. Makes sense why there was a knock on that B log. Why did I think I was in 3rd or 4th? Aye. Sorry about that. Now I fell a bit silly about that one.

Today I drove the new calibration quite a bit. 2 hours for sure, just cruised around the city and a bit of freeway. Driving it as much as I did today I had no issues at all. The pull it has in the low to midrange is just fantastic. Perfect for in city driving. Getting out of the hole as you were saying before. Thank you. I have uploaded a couple logs from today. The second I did do a 3rd gear WOT run just to see how it goes. The butt dyno says its working well but you are the magician when it comes to the inner magic of it all. :0)

[EFICU]

Yeah the strategies Honda built are pretty great. And Hondata gives us the ability to manipulate those things so that they aren't as present in our tunes as they are in the stock Honda file. The goal is to get these where there is no knock retard when the datalogs are knock free, like these two you posted are. So when you look in the datalog you'll see there is no knock retard going on, which means the ignition values are in a good place. When they have knock retard, most guys can feel that knock retard and it's power loss.

It's all good on the 6th gear pull. It was only for a couple seconds, and the more oddities you can find while driving helps us find those nooks and crannies to clean up. No big deal at all.

Both datalogs looked great. The idle fuel was a little funky, but we will wait and see how the next datalog looks. If it continues to show the trims I see in these we will make the adjustments. Nothing to be concerned about, just me nitpicking things still. But the WOT fuel was dead on, and the part throttle trims were great. Let's continue making datalogs this week and we will finalize everything soon. It looks great though, and glad you're happy with it.

[afauser]

Yeah the strategies Honda built are pretty great. And Hondata gives us the ability to manipulate those things so that they aren't as present in our tunes as they are in the stock Honda file. The goal is to get these where there is no knock retard when the datalogs are knock free, like these two you posted are. So when you look in the datalog you'll see there is no knock retard going on, which means the ignition values are in a good place. When they have knock retard, most guys can feel that knock retard and it's power loss.

It's all good on the 6th gear pull. It was only for a couple seconds, and the more oddities you can find while driving helps us find those nooks and crannies to clean up. No big deal at all.

Both datalogs looked great. The idle fuel was a little funky, but we will wait and see how the next datalog looks. If it continues to show the trims I see in these we will make the adjustments. Nothing to be concerned about, just me nitpicking things still. But the WOT fuel was dead on, and the part throttle trims were great. Let's continue making datalogs this week and we will finalize everything soon. It looks great though, and glad you're happy with it.

I was away/out of town for 3 days. Got home yesterday and took out my car(kinda missed driving it). Got up to about 145km/h then decided I should slow down. Then in that time coming down to around 100km/h the knock count jumped to 5. Kinda threw me off a bit because normally I would get them on accel and not part throttle decel. I guess that is why it is important to drive a map for multiple days and see what happens. I have 2 logs from last night and the "3" log is the one with the 5 knocks... The other log has 2 or so. No WOT pull though, didn't think I had to get that done as I had done it on an earlier log with this map. Thanks

[EFICU]

Yeah pretty much the same areas, just new knock basically. I think what it is, guys get comfortable with driving and sort of forget they are datalogging and drive how they normally do. Then new things emerge from that clear mindset. When you know you're datalogging, I think guys tend to change their driving style a little bit subconsciously. I'm no psychiatrist, but it sort of makes sense. Haha.

Anyways, I cleaned it up for the areas of concern. Give this one a shot over a few days of testing and see what you can find.

afauser.SD.V2HR.Rev12 (Blended)(Vtec3600)(Sport).fpcal

[afauser]

Yeah pretty much the same areas, just new knock basically. I think what it is, guys get comfortable with driving and sort of forget they are datalogging and drive how they normally do. Then new things emerge from that clear mindset. When you know you're datalogging, I think guys tend to change their driving style a little bit subconsciously. I'm no psychiatrist, but it sort of makes sense. Haha.

Anyways, I cleaned it up for the areas of concern. Give this one a shot over a few days of testing and see what you can find.

afauser.SD.V2HR.Rev12 (Blended)(Vtec3600)(Sport).fpcal

I get what you are saying. I do try to drive as normal as possible when data logging but like you said there might be slight differences here and there. It interesting how these little things will pop up with a small change in driving style. I'll try to get some decent logs done over the next few days, some with a bit of everything and see what happens. Thx

[afauser]

Hello. I've had some fun with this map trying to get some decent logs in. From regular driving to being a bit on the "silly" side. I'm not sure how much affect cooler weather and wet/rainy conditions would have on the engine. I have uploaded 3 logs with this post which are from the last 10 days or so.

The "silly" log I got up into a higher vehicle speed in 5th and held it there for a bit. Was annoyed being stuck behind an Avenger in dire need of rear struts doing 40kmh in a 60 zone and no way to pass. so once I had a chance to get ahead I did... The roads were wet/rainy at the time. Cooler weather. A few knocks showed up later on in the higher speeds. I probably should have shifted up but its also nice to hear how the engine sounds at 5-6000rpm...

The "2k" map has a couple knocks at lighter load. Was a short drive in the morning and the temperature was a bit cooler out so that's another reason why I was asking/wondering how or if it would affect it at all. Most of the days since that log have been a bit warmer so I haven't been able to duplicate the same condition.

The WOT log is just a 3rd gear run. Nothing appeared to be out of the ordinary on that one.

So I guess have a look at them when you have a chance and let me know if I need to do anymore drives on this map.

Thank you. Greatly appreciated.

[EFICU]

Yeah overall it looked pretty good throughout. Had a few random knock from areas we have been touching on in our travels. Any time you're traveling through hills it's always good to keep it wound up instead of it lugging the rpms, that is where knock is most likely to happen. Of course we can lower the ignition so that it won't knock in that scenario, but then you would lose that ignition around town where you might want it for everyday driving. A few knock on a road trip is no big deal, as is around town, I just aim for zero as the responsible thing to do.

Anyways, I made a few changes to the ignition for this one. Play around with it and see how it goes.

afauser.SD.V2HR.Rev13 (Blended)(Vtec3600)(Sport).fpcal

[afauser]

Hello. I just realized it's been 3 weeks that I've been running this latest tune. September seemed to fly by. The tune has been really good until the last couple days. I had a number of knocks on a couple drives and they were all come around the same time. I don't feel that I was "lugging" it when they happened. I'm also wondering if there is something with the fuel that I got in the last week. It's a bit strange to me that I will drive like I normally do then they occur then nothing until the next drive cycle. I was able to capture some in a log. Hope that you can make some sense of it al. If it happens to be fuel related it will be a week or so until I get fuel again. I was looking at this log and trying to figure out if they are happening in the same area they always do. I want to say they have occurred in the same area/driving condition on my more recent drives. Or so it seems to me anyway. Thank you

[EFICU]

Yeah you never know, it could be just the perfect scenario that causes a knock for a certain reason. Since we have cleaned up the routine ones that happened all the time in one area, a random one here and there on a drive is no big deal. We just don't want knock to occur every time you pass through a certain area of the table. Especially since 5 of the 6 knock were recorded in cylinder 2 which is the most sensitive of the cylinder since the knock sensor is located right there. For this next one I made a couple adjustments based on that to try to keep it knock free into the future. Other than it looks pretty good, I made a small fuel adjustment at idle. Other than that though, it looks solid.

Keep testing though and keep me in the loop.

afauser.SD.V2HR.Rev14 (Blended)(Vtec3600)(Sport).fpcal

[afauser]

Thank you so much.

I had a feeling that is why #2 recorded like it did- knock sensor being bolted right there at cylinder 2. Speaking of knock sensors, at work I had to pull the intake off of an older S4. That thing has 4 knock sensors in the valley. *puke* Old Audis are just $4!7. Lol. Fun to drive but man are they a pain in the butt.


One thing that I am curious about is how the car will act once we move into the winter months and our change to a winter fuel blend. Just have to wait and see.