Hondata

MM082001 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:29 am I found a header that will let me keep my CAT. Megan Racing MR-SSH-HC06SI. Might look for some 3" exhaust pipe at some local muffler shops. $200 for this header.

Gotcha, yeah that header might help a bit. The restrictive cat is our only barrier. We'll get what we can out of whatever you go with.

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Gotcha, yeah that header might help a bit. The restrictive cat is our only barrier. We'll get what we can out of whatever you go with.
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I'm up in the air on which way to go. I did find the 3" tube kit with a few different bends and 2 straight four footers for $100. It's still 3.5" in and 3" out with the cat. That header though.
My other line of thinking is to rebuild the trans with the full syncrotech carbon rebuild kit and add a light weight flywheel. I have gotten this trans to work the best it will, but it's been abused.

EFICU wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:51 pm

MM082001 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:29 am I found a header that will let me keep my CAT. Megan Racing MR-SSH-HC06SI. Might look for some 3" exhaust pipe at some local muffler shops. $200 for this header.

Gotcha, yeah that header might help a bit. The restrictive cat is our only barrier. We'll get what we can out of whatever you go with.

I know this won't make a big difference, but I was thinking of trying to set up a higher octane tune. I heard someone talking about mixing E85 with super unleaded to get 93 octane. I couldn't find a safe limit to mix without needing an E85 kit, but I did find a chart. This would actually lower the cost of a full tank, even if my gas mileage suffers. What do you think, waste of time or every little bit helps?

MM082001 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:47 pm I know this won't make a big difference, but I was thinking of trying to set up a higher octane tune. I heard someone talking about mixing E85 with super unleaded to get 93 octane. I couldn't find a safe limit to mix without needing an E85 kit, but I did find a chart. This would actually lower the cost of a full tank, even if my gas mileage suffers. What do you think, waste of time or every little bit helps?

To take advantage of the octane you would need another tune for the ignition and the fuel to run a blend. You can probably do a mix of 7 gallons 91 and 3 of e85. Only problem is we don't know how much ethanol is in the e85, so you would need to test it every time you put some in. Then if you get stuck somewhere and can't get e85, you would need to upload a straight pump gas tune. Essentially you would need your FP on you at all times to make sure you don't get stuck somewhere without the proper calibration, or at the very least no WOT pulls until you get the right calibration back in the car. Honestly though, a couple degrees of added timing may not really pick up too much power, naturally aspirated e85 doesn't really shine that well, it's boosted that it shines.

It's not cheap at all, but if you wanted to mix pump 100 here is a good conversion chart.

EFICU wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:25 am

MM082001 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:47 pm I know this won't make a big difference, but I was thinking of trying to set up a higher octane tune. I heard someone talking about mixing E85 with super unleaded to get 93 octane. I couldn't find a safe limit to mix without needing an E85 kit, but I did find a chart. This would actually lower the cost of a full tank, even if my gas mileage suffers. What do you think, waste of time or every little bit helps?

To take advantage of the octane you would need another tune for the ignition and the fuel to run a blend. You can probably do a mix of 7 gallons 91 and 3 of e85. Only problem is we don't know how much ethanol is in the e85, so you would need to test it every time you put some in. Then if you get stuck somewhere and can't get e85, you would need to upload a straight pump gas tune. Essentially you would need your FP on you at all times to make sure you don't get stuck somewhere without the proper calibration, or at the very least no WOT pulls until you get the right calibration back in the car. Honestly though, a couple degrees of added timing may not really pick up too much power, naturally aspirated e85 doesn't really shine that well, it's boosted that it shines.

It's not cheap at all, but if you wanted to mix pump 100 here is a good conversion chart.

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I guess I'm a bit frustrated, I feel like I went backwards somewhere. Went to Sears Point and ran 14.9 and 15.0. Just can't afford to do anything bigger now. First run 4500 and spun then tried 4000 and bogged.

I don't know how accurate Sac Raceway's timing gear honestly. They haven't really cared about that track for a long time. Sonoma on the other hand is an NHRA track. So I wouldn't really compare between the two. If anything, I would stick to Sonoma only and use that as your test grounds. Comparing times at two tracks is like comparing horsepower at two different dynos. The odds of them being the same are very little.

Not sure what your overall goal is, are you looking for track times or fun for the street? Looking at your file, it is sensitive to knock in the mid range a bit, but up top it is very sensitive to knock. I tune them for no knock, but if you want to put some of the timing back in it at the risk of some knock coming back we can. I seem to be the minority in tuning for no knock, I see a lot of datalogs coming to me from other places where there is a good bit of knock and they were told it's good to go. So, maybe I over do the removal of knock, but for me, I would rather give you guys something with good fueling and no knock.

But let me know. If you want to play with the timing some more we can. But let me know what is acceptable as far as knock for you and what you're comfortable with. I would also recommend waiting until the winter months to go for personal bests on the track. At 100* intake temps, you're nowhere near the ideal temp for making record runs for yourself. There are very few if any people trying to set PB's during this time of year.

What do you think is causing the knock sensativity? Is there something I can do to change that. Just a lot of changes to be only a few tenths from what stock does consistantly.

Every car is different, so it's hard to say what is causing the sensitivity. 91 octane for sure is part of the problem, but it could be a combination of the intake and stock cat, with the exhaust you have. It could be any number of things, spark plugs, plug age, gap, etc. Do you fill up with 91 until the pump shuts off, or do you only put 5-6 gallons in at a time? If someone only puts a half tank or so in every time at the gas station, the fuel will never be a full 91 octane unless they make sure the person before them pumped 91 too. Your car likes about 3-4* less up top than most 8th gens that I have worked on. Again, a lot of tuners seem to say that "most" cars should be able to handle a certain number for ignition so they run that same ignition on all cars they tune, whether it shows knock or not. Whether that is right or wrong in practice, that isn't for me to decide I guess.

You have done a lot of detail work like porting the manifold and the TB swap. But the TB swap is only proven to add a couple hp if that on a FBO car (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nygSNSHsN0E). With you having the stock cat, I don't know if that would go up or down. How much is the port work worth, we don't know either. Until you get the OEM cat removed, the car will most likely have trouble picking up power. Couple that with 100* intake temps and 91 octane and there is only so much to be gained. IMO

A fairly respected theory is for every tenth you can shave off the 60ft time is worth 2-3 tenths at the quarter mile. So everything you can do to get your 60ft time lower will help it on the top end. If you can get your 60ft time down time 2.24 like in the last video I attach below, you could be running a 14.7 or so. You can't rely on launch control to make your launches for you. Try to launch the car without launch control to find the RPM that your setup likes, then set the launch control to that and see if it works. Launch control with a super sticky tire is what makes for the ideal scenario. Very few cars on a stock street 215 tire will just dump the clutch; stick and move out like our minds think it should. On a 215 street tire at 35psi you are going to have to drive it off the line somewhat to get it moving quickly.

Some quick comparisons below...

14.41 @ 96.78, 14.34 @ 96.84, 14.21 @ 97.34 in January on 235-40-17 tires. I will assume this was done in cooler weather since it was posted in January of this year and he states 93 octane in the description. At the 2:50 mark he launches the car pretty hard, is yours leaving like this? Are your tires near 235-40-17? This guy is only six tenths faster than you with full 3" exhaust and the 3" Berk test pipe with no cat, and a 235 tire all in cooler temps. The RDX injectors are irrelevant as they don't add power, just allow you to make more power with the required mods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR76ONZE0hs

-Hondata Flashpro 93 Octane Street Tune
-3” SSRD intake with Velocity Stack
-J35 Throttle Body
-RDX Injectors
-K-Tuned 3” exhaust
-Berk Test Pipe
-Boomba Torque Mounts
-R1 Concepts Drilled and Slotted Rotors
-Kendra Kaiser KR20A 235/40/17
-Avid1 AV-38 17x8 +38

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13.93 @ 102. Spare tire and seats removed, Michelin Pilot Sports at 25psi. FBO car with an EM1 CMC and HR shifter/cables. Posted in February, cooler temps would be assumed. You might hit this SpecTuning guy up for a tune, he street tuned his. If you're willing to pull your seats out and your spare tire, run a quarter tank of gas, run a race header and delete the cat, 3" exhaust and Michelin Super Sport 225 tires we can get you here, which is only one second faster than your current time. Well 1.1 seconds if we're being specific, haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMmyJDx5wKw

2010 FG2 Civic Si, stock K20z3 engine & trans, (seats & spare tire removed - 2,875lbs with driver)
- Hybrid Racing intake, shifter cables and shifter assembly
- Skunk 2 Alpha Header
- 3" exhaust, XLR8 Performance (76mm)
- RRC Throttle Body + spacer (same size as a J35)
- Koni Yellow/Nuespeed Sport suspension setup, 24mm Progressive rear sway
- Flashpro, street-tuned by SpecTuning, 220whp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsaSH8vJSBM)
- Michelin Pilot Super Sports, 225/45/17 @ 25psi on Knockoff wheel$.
- Em1 CMC.

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14.7 @ 95mph. K-Tuned CAI and FlashPro posted in October 2018, again cooler temps would be assumed. Weather history shows a low of 62* on this day and a high of 81* (https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/atlan ... ?year=2020). You ran a 15.08 at 94.27 in 120* intake temps at the start and 100* at the end of the track. Does he have 93 octane, I don't know, again I would assume in Atlanta they have 93. Google search shows they do, so who knows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c11VuX4UeWA

-K-Tuned CAI
-FlashPro (Unknown calibration)
-17x9 wheels (Would assume wider than stock 215??)

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14.95 @ 93.24 with a 2.24 60ft with an HR only and FlashPro. Looks like an area with 93 octane, though I don't know what the guy is running obviously. You have more mph than he does at the quarter mile, so there is a lack of getting off the line from looking at the timeslips, but you come on stronger at the top end. Your best 60ft time is a 2.411 compared to his 2.24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSl7Wx63IE

-HR CAI
-FlashPro (Unknown calibration)

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The local legend Tong Man, 2600 lbs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UFxXq4ahUs) full bolt on has a lot of videos showing his stages. Not sure exactly when he went 2600lbs in his car, but look through his videos here and see how they compare to your car https://www.youtube.com/c/TheTongMan/search?query=fg2 . Lot's of FBO videos of him going 14.0 ish and he can drive pretty good. He went to no lift shift when it was available, so not sure if he has any NA videos with no lift shift before he went boosted.

Based on the video evidence I don't know which route to go in order to help you achieve your goals. As I see it, your car runs the same MPH as a guy running a 14.7 @ 95mph with 93 octane and cooler weather. So it seems the power is there based on how people determine your quarter mile and trap speed. You might hit up a forum or facebook favorite tuner and have them tune it for you. That might yield you the best results, in theory anyways. Or hit up the SpecTuning guy in the second video and see if he tunes for people, he appears to be local since the video is at Sac Raceway or Tong Man. If you want to tune it for the track, we can play with some timing and what not. But again, I need to know what level of knock you are okay with so we can get to that and not go over it. We can also add what I would consider too much cam angle on the high cam and see if that picks up for you too. My tuning style is for the street and what the car wants. The fact that you can make those runs and not have any knock is my main focus. But we can play with the timing if you'd like, there will most likely be some knock, to which we need to know how much knock is too much for your comfort is all.

My honest recommendation would be to wait until the hot months are over and then go out and try to shoot for fast times. Unless you're a boosted guy running an air to water intercooler with ice in the tank, very few people are out trying to set personal bests in July in California. :) I'd love to help you reach your goals, as unhappy "customers" like yourself cause me to feel like I've let you down. Whatever I can do to help you let me know, but it seems finding a better launch solution seems to be where we are losing time, which I hate saying because you then think I am saying it's all your fault, which i'm not. Just saying maybe it's a combo of tires, pressure, and finding the right launch rpm and clutch slipping to get it out of the hole. Here is how Tong Man does his, not sure you do it the same or not, but it's an idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0tirCGstI0.

ning an air to water intercooler with ice in the tank, very few people are out trying to set personal bests in July in California. :) I'd love to help you reach your goals, as unhappy "customers" like yourself cause me to feel like I've let you down. Whatever I can do to help you let me know, but it seems finding a better launch solution seems to be where we are losing time, which I hate saying because you then think I am saying it's all your fault, which i'm not. Just saying maybe it's a combo of tires, pressure, and finding the right launch rpm and clutch slipping to get it out

Sorry, don't take it this way at all!!! I am a very happy customer. I just get frustrated with things I can do myself and know most of the problem has been my launch. It's not like I can test my launch on the street, way different feel. I was actually looking at stickier tires just for track day. It also didn't help I only got one practice run and had to guess a dial in time. Lost to an 8th gen 4 dr running 14.38. Didn't get to talk to him.
Damn, that's a bunch of great info, thanks. That was just some late nite whining. For now I'll keep it the same, but maybe a second track tune with a bit of knock for track night. Would it help if I made a 91/100 mix to get 93 for a more aggressive tune?

If I didn't bog off the line, this could have been a good run. But the tires grabbed at 3000 something.

It's all good, I just wish we could meet your goals. But honestly I think waiting until the cooler weather is upon us would yield better results, or at least ideal circumstances to meet them. I would almost bet the other 8th gen had a race header, but I could be wrong of course. Running a 93 mix could help some if we add the timing to take advantage of it. But I think you, like me, want to get you there without saying it has a second tune. I always like to get guys to their goals with one tune to say the car does it all on the track and off the track. Kind of like the guy who ran a 13.93 with all the seats out and the spare removed, if you have to put an asterisk next to your time it hurts the time no matter what you ran. When you have to say I ran a 13.93 and explain everything to removed and did to make it run that time makes it less interesting to me. I like to run them how you drive them on the street, then it makes the time more valid IMO.

EFICU wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:43 pm It's all good, I just wish we could meet your goals. But honestly I think waiting until the cooler weather is upon us would yield better results, or at least ideal circumstances to meet them. I would almost bet the other 8th gen had a race header, but I could be wrong of course. Running a 93 mix could help some if we add the timing to take advantage of it. But I think you, like me, want to get you there without saying it has a second tune. I always like to get guys to their goals with one tune to say the car does it all on the track and off the track. Kind of like the guy who ran a 13.93 with all the seats out and the spare removed, if you have to put an asterisk next to your time it hurts the time no matter what you ran. When you have to say I ran a 13.93 and explain everything to removed and did to make it run that time makes it less interesting to me. I like to run them how you drive them on the street, then it makes the time more valid IMO.

You have meet my goals for what I have done. I just wish I understood the tuning side more so I know if these little changes helped or hurt. It's better in every way than the previous work and base tunes. I'll let you know when I do something else. I still may go to 3" and the other header. I will be able to smooth it out a lot compared to what I built.

EFICU wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:43 pm It's all good, I just wish we could meet your goals. But honestly I think waiting until the cooler weather is upon us would yield better results, or at least ideal circumstances to meet them. I would almost bet the other 8th gen had a race header, but I could be wrong of course. Running a 93 mix could help some if we add the timing to take advantage of it. But I think you, like me, want to get you there without saying it has a second tune. I always like to get guys to their goals with one tune to say the car does it all on the track and off the track. Kind of like the guy who ran a 13.93 with all the seats out and the spare removed, if you have to put an asterisk next to your time it hurts the time no matter what you ran. When you have to say I ran a 13.93 and explain everything to removed and did to make it run that time makes it less interesting to me. I like to run them how you drive them on the street, then it makes the time more valid IMO.

Was doing some more suspension work and electrical on the car and had to take the intake off. Not sure if it made any changes, but the sensor is rotated a bit different than before. Had to redo the battery cables and stereo power so I had a way to jump start the car. There's no room to get jumper cables down there without arcing out. And made a tryaglulated tie bar for the subframe.

Yeah it looks good. The MAF sensor is only there as an intake temp sensor, so you can rotate it however you need. With that intake we have to speed density tune it, which the MAF sensor then becomes an intake temp sensor only in the tune. But it looks good still.

EFICU wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:54 pm Yeah it looks good. The MAF sensor is only there as an intake temp sensor, so you can rotate it however you need. With that intake we have to speed density tune it, which the MAF sensor then becomes an intake temp sensor only in the tune. But it looks good still.

Thanks, I am picking up 2 new tire for the front, but am wondering if I will have a problem with larger tires. Rear tires will have 833 revolutions per mile and the fronts will have 820. I'm going to try the proxy sport (240 treadwear). I've never ran this sticky of a tire, so I want to see what type of mileage I will see. Then throw my all-seasons back on if it start to rain in a few months.