New to FP and seeing a lot of knock during 3rd geat WOT

[EFICU]

Sounds good, I'll keep an eye out for it when you post it.

[m.sumulong]

Okay, I got the new O2 sensor in without *too many* issues. Lol, the old one was seized and I was afraid the threads to the manifold were toast when I finally got it out, but managed to chase them out and got the new one in nice and torqued. Anyways, I can see the difference compared to the previous logs, so it looks like the new one is working alright. I reloaded Rev01 back into the car so that's what this drive is running on. The pull is on the second log.

[EFICU]

Yeah that sucks, now that these cars are more than a decade old they tend to get corrosion issues like that. At least it sounds like you took the right measures to do it right which is good. It was worth your time because the new sensor is working properly now, and it sounds like you can see what I saw seeing, so that's good. This one looked pretty good for a start. I made some fuel changes and some MAF scaling. I also made some adjustments for a couple knock we had. Either way we're off to a good start.

Now we will move to the 15* cam angle with vtec at 4500 again. Take this one for a spin when you can and we will see how it looks. Same datalog and driving style.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev02.1 (15Cam)(Vtec4500).fpcal

[m.sumulong]

Here's the latest log, and it's knock free! The pull is at the usual spot. It's been fun doing these pulls again, car seems happy to be doing them as well!

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev02.1 (15Cam)(Vtec4500)(2).fpdl

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev02.1 (15Cam)(Vtec4500)(1).fpdl

[EFICU]

Yeah it looks really good. I made some adjustments to the MAF scale for part throttle fueling just to tighten things up a bit. The WOT fueling was pretty good, I also made some adjustments to that as well. And as you mention it's knock free on that one which is great. We will now move to the 30* cam angle with vtec at 5500. I will be moving vtec up and down over the next few revisions to work on finding our optimal vtec engagement RPM and dial in the fueling around that are too.

Take this one for a spin when you can, same datalog and driving style. I'm glad you're enjoying the process, it's worth it to do all this work.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev03 (30Cam)(Vtec5500).fpcal

[m.sumulong]

Here's the next log, definitely starting to feel the car pick up. Looks like cylinder 3 is doing some funky stuff though, I see that quite a few knocks came up when I switched to 4th and continued the pull. Probably still part of the process, eh?

If you have a moment, do you mind explaining where I can see these adjustments you make and what exactly you are looking at/going for before you make them? I'd like to follow along and try to understand more about tuning, especially how you interpret what the car is doing to make the necessary adjustments.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev03 (30Cam)(Vtec5500)(1).fpdl

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev03 (30Cam)(Vtec5500)(2).fpdl

[EFICU]

Yeah it's all part of the process, every car is different so we need to see where it knocks to remove them. We will have you make fourth gear pulls like that towards the end to check for knock. Only from say 3000-7000k so that you don't to too high of a speed on the street. If you want to continue to make the long third gear pull and then grab fourth gear just like you did in this one that's fine, just be safe is all. And yeah, it should feel pretty strong in the midrange but falling off up top. As we go through one cam angle at a time like this, it will feel strong in some areas and not so much in others. It shows you the importance of cam angle mapping and how it makes the car drive better and make more power. Once we blend things out in the end, you will see the difference.

The only thing you can do is while in FP Manager with the most recent calibration open, go to "file" in the top left, then "compare", and select the previous calibration to compare what I change. Unfortunately it doesn't really tell you too much, and no way to compare values directly. The best thing is to maybe have two FP Manager screens open side by side, then compare the tables maybe.

Here is the next one. For this one, all we we really need is a clean third gear WOT pull again. So feel free to do a short datalog of ten minutes with the WOT pull if you'd like. Totally up to you on the length of the datalog as long as we get a clean third gear WOT pull. Vtec will be at 4000 now, still on the 30* cam angle.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev04 (30Cam)(Vtec4000).fpcal

[m.sumulong]

Here's another log for you, shorter like you recommended.

Yesterday's pull was on a long stretch completely free of cars, so I may have gotten a little carried away. It's hard not to but you're right, got to keep safety in mind.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev04 (30Cam)(Vtec4000).fpdl

[EFICU]

It looks good. We will now move to the 40* cam angle with vtec at 5500 again. Only one more after this and we go back to a blended file, so we're almost there.

Yeah I just want you guys to be safe on the street for your sake and others is all.

Here is the next one. Short datalog again is fine.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev05 (40Cam)(Vtec5500).fpcal

[m.sumulong]

Here's the next one. Thanks for being so quick on getting me these new cals btw

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev05 (40Cam)(Vtec5500).fpdl

[EFICU]

It looks really good. We will go ahead and do the final one on the 40* cam with vtec at 4000. I will go ahead and work on blending out the cam angle for WOT and wait for the next datalog to finalize it. For this one, I put a blended cam angle map on the part throttle driving just so it's a little smoother drive. The 40* cam angle for part throttle isn't the most powerful or smoothest when the cam rotation happens so fast, so this one will be blended for part throttle, but locked on the 40* for WOT to get the data we need.

You're welcome, your car is a refreshing Canadian car to work on. A lot of the Canadian cars I work on seem to have a fair amount of knock up there, so it's nice to get one with almost none throughout this process.

Same datalog again, this one can be short again.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev06.1 (40Cam)(Vtec4000).fpcal

[m.sumulong]

That's interesting about Canadian cars. I wonder if our fuel up here is refined differently. I have heard that some places have additives put in during the summer, not sure if that could be related. I'm also doing these pulls in colder temps and at night (about 3-5*C), could that affect the AFR? Obviously there are a lot of places in Canada that reach lower than that, but I'd be hesitant of doing these pulls at temps any lower than this.

Just some random thoughts about that lol. Anyways, here's the next log for you.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev06.1 (40Cam)(Vtec4000).fpdl

[EFICU]

Yeah I'm not sure honestly. I know a lot of guys say your fuel supply up there is a little scarce and that some octane levels aren't always available, or readily available. It seems as though fuel all over is going down quality wise. I see a lot more knock on 8th gens than I've seen in past years. Could be all in my head, but the more I work on the more I am having to make a lot of changes to WOT ignition where I didn't before.

The calibrations have air temp compensations. So when the temps get cooler, it will add a little bit of fuel to compensate for the cooler denser air. Same thing when it's got, it will remove fuel to compensate for the how air, since it requires less fuel. I have the cold idle at 1500 for all temps, but we can raise it up to 1800 or so in the really cold temps if you want to help warm it up. How cold does it get where you are? Another thing to note, the K&N SRI is always pulling warm air from behind the engine, so your intake temps will always be warmer than you think because of that. But either way, there are compensations. Now that we have the tune dialed in the normal weather, you can always make a pull when it's really cold and send me the datalog. I can make changes to the compensations easily for you. If anything, with really cold temps, it can lean out a little bit and be just fine. The cold air keeps the cylinder and temps down which makes things safer. There is nothing to worry about though, the tune is designed to work in all conditions and elevations, I don't tune for ideal conditions only, all the factory and Hondata strategies are still in place for protection and drivability.

So I went ahead and blended everything out now for you based on the data. The cam angle map is in there now so it should feel pretty strong all over. This is the first file with everything blended out and back on. For these we want to keep doing out twenty minute datalogs and get at least one clean third gear WOT pull. But feel free to have some extra fun with it if you'd like, it's plenty safe to have fun with now. Then we will see how it looks and go from there. Let me know how it goes. Vtec looks happiest at 4600, but honestly your fuel curves are so flat we could probably go anywhere between 4300 and 5000. So try it at 4600, let's see how the data looks at that rpm and how you feel about it, then we'll go from there.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev07 (Blended)(Vtec4600).fpcal

[m.sumulong]

Damn this car has some pull now. As you can see at around the 6 min mark, I did a pull from stop for the first time since we started doing this and it caught me off guard how much pop it had, such a clumsy shift into second lol. Vtec is perfect where it's at, while I miss the surge at the factory setting, the transition is so smooth now with more power throughout the pull. Love where this is going!

I'm okay with where the idle is sitting at, I live in the mildest climate in Canada where -10C is a rare extreme which usually only lasts 1-2 days. We usually sit at around 0C around this time, so no need to do anything thanks to the compensations you mentioned. Throughout the year we go from a low of maybe -10C to as high as about 40C. Not sure what these are in F, sorry.

Few stations up here offer higher than 91, I can really only think of Shell and Chevron that do. It's likely these increased knocks are due to the 8th gens just aging in general. These engines, unless rebuilt of course, are just getting older and then you have idiots like me beating the crap out them.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev07 (Blended)(Vtec4600)(1).fpdl

[EFICU]

Glad to hear you're happy with it. I always feel like I'm getting the best product for you guys when we tune these the proper route, so I'm glad you took the time to do it. Yeah you didn't even get to WOT on that first gear pull, haha. You only got to 40-50% pedal. Have you done the clutch master cylinder (CMC) swap yet? If not, that will allow you to make second gear shifts properly and not have the issue you might have had. https://k-tuned.3dcartstores.com/K-Seri ... p_624.html

The data for vtec looks good at 4600, so that's good that you like it. So the low threshold is at 4600, and the upper threshold is at 5400. I'm sure you know how iVtec works, but vtec will only kick on when you're near WOT. So if you were to drive at part throttle past 4600 it won't kick vtec on. Play with that a little bit to make sure you're good with that. If you want it to kick on easier, I can lower the pressure threshold so it will. But most guys like being able to pass the lower threshold RPM at part throttle and not have vtec kick on.

Gotcha, yeah you are in a fairly mild climate then. I've worked with a few guys at high elevation in Canada and they get some cold weather. You'll be just fine then.

Yeah the 8th gens are almost all teenagers now. I'm not sure of the fuel situation up there, but you could be right. It just seems like lately it's been more of an issue all over North America. I do a little bit of European and Australian stuff, but I can't speak to inconsistency in those regions with such a small data sample. Either way I am glad to see you're is nice and knock free. Overall the tune looks great, we almost nailed it on the first try there. WOT fuel was only off by a percent or so in a couple cells, and dead on everywhere else. Part throttle MAF scale looks great. We had a knock near redline, so I pulled a degree or two of ignition there to remove that. Take this next one for a spin when you can, and feel free to have some fun with it if the roads persist, then we'll see how it looks.

m.sumulong.Hybrid.Rev08 (Blended)(Vtec4600).fpcal