Big problems with car/k-pro

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:55 am

now to start off, i have been trying to diagnose this issue before sending the k-pro back in...this is MrBurner from clubrsx, the boost forum moderator and i have a turbocharged rsx-s

i originally had an ECU that apparently had a fried IAT sensor so i purchased a new ECU...while hondata had my ECU, i decided to put a new wiring harness (engine harness) in the car since i have had a couple of previous problems with the wiring harness and that is all i could attribute to the IAT sensor being fried

ok, so new wiring harness and new ecu with k-pro in...plug in the laptop, upload the base calibration given to me by another trustworthy member with a similar setup (after i set lean protocols, etc. etc.)...so i'm out driving around, and the car just feels a ridiculous amount better than it ever did when i had the guardian installed on it...do some datalogging (it cuts off every once in awhile, but i am able to datalog long enough to get some solid numbers)...so i try to make some changes and then re-upload and it won't let me, i get an error - upload failed box that pops up

so i try to clear the security, but i get another error box that says clear security failed...note that the car drives very well in low/part throttle but i just can't get into boost without being lean cut

so after about a day of having this installed, i finally get 2 error codes through k-pro (no CEL though)
1. IAT sensor high voltage
2. ECT sensor high voltage

my map sensor reading is also off as its reading roughly 3.9psi at idle (this is with a newly installed motec 3 bar and the settings in my calibration show that i have the motec sensor)

so now i tried to measure voltage levels by unplugging both the IAT and ECT clips from the actual sensors and both measure roughly 5 volts at the sensor...leaving it unplugged from the sensor and measuring them at the ECU comes up with roughly 7 volts (when i probe into the ECU...i haven't looked into the map sensor voltage quite yet since that didn't throw an error code...i will doublecheck these readings today

this is a new wiring harness...it shouldn't have any issues...ESPECIALLY NOT something that i may have had before...the chances of that seems infinitely small...neither the IAT sensor or the ECT sensor tie into one of the small subharnesses in the engine bay - as far as i can tell, they are just run straight to the ECU and it really doesn't make sense to me how they could pickup voltage like that

what should/can i do? i really don't want to send it back just to have you guys tell me that i will need yet another new ECU AND that something else on my car will blow this one...i would love to have my car back up and running properly and i haven't been driving it much at all since i put the k-pro in...i was thinking of bringing it to the dealership to see if they can plug the honda computer in to see if any of my other sensors are reading off at all...but looking at my sensors in kmanager when at idle, it seems as though my IAT and ECT are both reading roughly how they should be reading

i made a datalog of my car from being off to it being turned on and then idling for a minute (and at the end i rev it upto about 3k)...is there any way anyone can look at this and see whether or not i'm having issues with any other sensors? i mean i shoulddn't have to do this with a new wiring harness, but if it comes to it, right now it looks like i will just run a new wire from the clip of the IAT and ECT sensors all the way straight into the ECU...but i'd defenitely rather not do that and i'd rather find out what the issue is here

i will attach the datalog in a moment as its on a different computer

any help is appreciated as i'm not really sure what my next steps should be

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:57 am

here is the datalog at idle

Razathorn · Post by **Razathorn** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:03 am

Have you addressed grounding? Perhaps you have a weak ground and there is a voltage potential difference somewhere that is causing this?

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:25 am

Razathorn wrote:Have you addressed grounding? Perhaps you have a weak ground and there is a voltage potential difference somewhere that is causing this?

hmm...well when i took the readings the ECU was floating loosely so i didn't have it bolted in so it wasn't grounded at all, but regardless of this, i was having these problems when the ECU was grounded and in there (i will try to take new readings today wiht it grounded though)

i moved the fuel rail ground to the top of the valve cover as hondata reccomends...i also have an hks ground wire kit so i don't think grounding is an issue

it just seems odd that there would be such a voltage difference within a couple of wires, but i will reground the ECU and see what comes of that

Razathorn · Post by **Razathorn** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:57 pm

MrBurner wrote:
Razathorn wrote:Have you addressed grounding? Perhaps you have a weak ground and there is a voltage potential difference somewhere that is causing this?
hmm...well when i took the readings the ECU was floating loosely so i didn't have it bolted in so it wasn't grounded at all, but regardless of this, i was having these problems when the ECU was grounded and in there (i will try to take new readings today wiht it grounded though)

i moved the fuel rail ground to the top of the valve cover as hondata reccomends...i also have an hks ground wire kit so i don't think grounding is an issue

it just seems odd that there would be such a voltage difference within a couple of wires, but i will reground the ECU and see what comes of that

I'm not quite sure that my grounding issue suggestion would make readings be 'higher' however, now that I think about it.

Have you tried your ECU in another car to see if you get the same errors / behavior. That would rule out car/sensors vs ecu.

Troubleshooting brain engaged

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:55 pm

Razathorn wrote:
MrBurner wrote:
Razathorn wrote:Have you addressed grounding? Perhaps you have a weak ground and there is a voltage potential difference somewhere that is causing this?
hmm...well when i took the readings the ECU was floating loosely so i didn't have it bolted in so it wasn't grounded at all, but regardless of this, i was having these problems when the ECU was grounded and in there (i will try to take new readings today wiht it grounded though)

i moved the fuel rail ground to the top of the valve cover as hondata reccomends...i also have an hks ground wire kit so i don't think grounding is an issue

it just seems odd that there would be such a voltage difference within a couple of wires, but i will reground the ECU and see what comes of that
I'm not quite sure that my grounding issue suggestion would make readings be 'higher' however, now that I think about it.

Have you tried your ECU in another car to see if you get the same errors / behavior. That would rule out car/sensors vs ecu.

Troubleshooting brain engaged

haha been thinking about that one too...i've got posts on a couple local message boards and hopefully one guy will come through this weekend...i will hook the ECU up to his car and see if i can upload anything, see if i can clear security, and i will also check the voltages at the clip and at the ecu for the sensors

but yeah, thats already in motion

but thanks for the suggestions...keep them coming

Razathorn · Post by **Razathorn** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:34 pm

It might be the snail in your turbo....

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:14 pm

ok so yeah...i'm retarded...i was getting voltage readings from the wrong wires at the ECU...i just double checked absolutely everything and i don't see how this could be a problem on my end

my new 3 bar map sensor has 1.6 volts at the map sensor and at the ECU (as it is supposed to) yet it is reading 3.9 psi at idle in the kpro

the IAT sensor when not plugged in reads 5.0 volts at the sensor and 5.0 volts at the ECU...when plugged in it reads roughly 2.6-2.7 volts at the sensor and at the ECU...exact same with the ECT sensor

so i'm really hoping this is a problem with the kpro and not with my car

i will bring it into acura tomorrow and have them hook it up to their computer to see if any sensors look off...and i will hook it up to someone elses car hopefully sunday (whenever i can get another k series available)

i'm going to go out and try a different USB cable to see if that changes anything

*crosses fingers* please be an easy fix

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:24 pm

so yeah...different usb cable did nothing

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:56 am

anyone?

Razathorn · Post by **Razathorn** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:34 pm

Considering all the research i've done and recent tuning I've been doing, I'm trying to inject responsiveness into these forums... unfortunatly, I don't have any idea about your issue

.

02SilverSiHB · Post by **02SilverSiHB** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:47 pm

strange..so even after the first time of uploading you can't upload now...it fails? I had this happen to me..but without ever being able to upload. I called hondata and they helped me out..had to send it back. I would call if I were you. Although...with it working in the past...may just be an laptop problem.

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:25 pm

i have 2 laptops that i'm using and neither will work now...they can connect and everything, just can't upload or clear security

but anyways...i have an

*******
UPDATE
*******

so today i went to a guy's house who offered me the use of his car (civic si EP3)...i put the kpro in his car and it lets me clear security...hmm interesting

then it won't let me do anything else...just like with my car it worked once and after that i can't datalog or clear security or anything...with his brand new bone stock ep3

so i put it back in my car and my car starts like it was on 2 cylinders...idled around 300-400 rpm, some smoke out of the exhaust, etc....this happened twice before in the past week or so that i've had the kpro in, but i just turn the key off and back on it and starts up and runs incredibly well...but now it just constantly starts up like that and has a CEL but no error codes register in kmanager (but they didn't before when it happened either...it just seems to be some weird random problem)...so i had to have the car flatbedded home, but luckily acura paid for it (their TLC thing that they give you when you buy the car)...plus i gave the guy $20 extra

but yeah...i guess i'll call hondata tomorrow when they're open and probably send it back in tomorrow

MrBurner · Post by **MrBurner** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:08 am

i see the recent sticky but i was really hoping to get some sort of feedback from the hondata techs as the only thing i have seemingly left out is my calibration which i really don't see as being relevant to this problem i'm having

- the calibration (as an attachment) - now attached
- a datalog of a problem (as an attachment) - attached above
- what sort of vehicle you have - above...2002 acura rsx type s
- what sort of ECU you are using - answered above...hondata k-pro PRB ecu - brand new, purchased through you
- anything about the car which has been modified from stock which may affect the ECU (don't include what sort of rims you have nor stereo etc). - answered above...car has a brand new wiring harness, new NGK 2668 Resistor spark plugs, autometer cobalt boost and oil pressure gauges, CN stage 1 turbo w/ 650cc high impedence injectors, 60-1 turbo upgrade, motec 3 bar map sensor
- a specific description of the problem - above...

Post by **Hondata** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:40 am

After clearing security a calibration must be uploaded, otherwise the car will not run. Also do not ground the ECU.

Connect the stock MAP sensor. Using the wiring diagram in the manual trace the wires to the MAP, ECT and IAT sensors, check from each pin in the ECU to the sensor and also that the pin is not grounded nor connected to the main relay output. The ECU must be plugged in and the ignition off.

e.g. using the manual find the wire color for the MAP signal (pin A19) and check from the MAP connector to the ECU. There should be very little resistance. Also check that A19 is not grounded (pin A19 to pin A4, pin A19 to A10 and pin A19 to pin A23) nor goes to +12V (pin A19 to pin A2).

Repeat for the other MAP, ECT & IAT pins.

Then plug the ECU in and with all the sensors disconnected check at the ECU for +5V between the ECU VCC pins and LG pins (check all of them). Plus the sensors in and check that there still is +5V at the VCC pins.

If you notice anything strange then investigate further - if the MAP sensor is producing the wrong reading so you should try and determine if it is the MAP sensor, the wiring or a software setting.

My guess is that a sensor is pulling one of the VCC outputs to ground and damaging the ECU voltage regulator, or some other part of the harness is grounding an output.