uncorrect ETC.c compensation on high load

[sashg]

Hi
I see a lot of times problem with uncorrect compensations on high load.
PLS see attached logs.
This is a big problem some time then you use low termostat for example.
another example : i have OEM thermostats which is open at 77.8C and at the same time see VERY BIG correction at ETC.c not from my ECT high load table compensation.
How to fix this problem ?
PLS adwice!

[forevertrj]

could you send me a datalog of you starting the car and letting it warm up from just idling, I noticed that your ECT didn't change at all from 168 degrees fahrenheit where as on a datalog of mine it goes from 192 Deg/F to about 182 degrees, and I wasn't even driving as fast as you were, I want to see if your thermostat has failed open, (when was the last time you replaced it) or whether it's an electrical issue with maybe the thermostat ground. SO after warming up the car should sit at about 187-195 degrees fahrenheit and when highway cruising probably no lower than 177 degrees, your car is on the edge of being too cold, why the ECU is making adjustments of 20% is beyond me, I see that you've set the open loop operation to begin at -5.3 PSI seeing as you are not using PSI, try changing this -10 Inches, as I'm unsure if the ECU is using the wideband sensor 24/7 and not switching to the open loop portion of your map, once you go WOT.

I mean you have a 4% change in fuel from the ECT portion of your calibration, maybe there is a multiplier hidden somewhere that is changing it to 20%, in any case get rid of that thermostat your running and replace it, or clean all the grounds in your engine bay, at any rate we have to get your cars engine temp higher.

[sashg]

Hi men,
I working more then 5 year with hondata's ecu. And all time the i see such problem I told my clients - PLS change thermostat. Of couse this is fix the problem....but not at all.
The main problem why then i have 4% in fuel compensation table we have 20% in log and very rich AFR?
During warm up - I don't have any problem. Low load corrections works fine.
The problem just with high load.
Iam still waiting answer from Spunkster. I hope hi will have a time for this is big problem.
PS: I am living in Russia - Sibirya. Some time at winter season we have very cold weather conditions :)

[Spunkster]

What is the serial number of the s300 board inside the ECU?

From Help, About, what is the version of software you are using?

[sashg]

SN is 12955
FW 1.04
SW 2.3.7


This problem present on diff version of boards and sw versions.
BR!
Sash

[Spunkster]

If this were a software bug I believe a lot more people would be having this issue. Can you try using a different ECU with the s300? It is very strange that the ECT is not changing at all.

[Johnny_9]

I seem to be getting the same issue.

Attached is screenshot of the data-log/parameters window of a start-up at 36C

ECTc is showing 13.3% at 3.680 secs into the datalog (@TPS at 10%, 2,510rpm)

This 13.3% ECTc in the datalog, EXCEEDS the open loop ECTc at 20C/41C of 11.7%/8.6% in the parameters window
.....................................................
My take: The data-logged ECTc seems to be mixed-in with Post Start enrichment and/or the TPS>Tip-In Fuel (Initial)
.....................................................

S300v1
2.4.1
Calibration (as an attachment)
Datalog of a problem (as an attachment)
96 civic ek ob2a B18C
p28 hondata with built-in Hondata OBD2a adaptor
Mods - 380cc injector, WB LC-1 to pin B6/AN2 - R2 and R3 removed or replaced with 1N4148 diodes; WB tailpipe with 10 inch sniffer probe, WB is powered by its own separate 12V battery, Ignition system stock; the car was previously tuned with 330cc injectors and subsequently injectors upgraded to 380cc saturated)

[Hondata]

The way ECT compensation is used by the ECU is that the ECU only recalculates the compensation when the ECT changes by a degree or so. Both datalogs have constant ECTs for some reason.

sashg - why is your ECT constant over quite varied driving conditions? Can you make a datalog from a cold start?

[Johnny_9]

ECT starts at 36C and ends at 78c

[Hondata]

Johnny_9: I don't see the 13% correct in the datalog you posted. Can you post a datalog showing this?

The data-logged ECTc seems to be mixed-in with Post Start enrichment

Yes, that is what happens while the engine is warming up. I suspect that the problem the thread starter and other people were seeing is that the ECU never determines that the engine is 'warmed up' if a low temperature thermostat is used.

[Johnny_9]

Here is the datalog re-posted (03-150706-093024.s3d) - the calibration is posted above

At 3.685s just as the car is started, I jab the throttle and ECTc(%) jumps to 13.3%

In the calibration (attached) and screenshot (Parameters, Fuel Compensation,>Water Temp>Open Loop -High Load (95kpa) the maximum ECTc(%), 20C-41C is 10.9%-7.8%, which is less than 13.3% shown in the datalog at 3.685s

[sashg]

The way ECT compensation is used by the ECU is that the ECU only recalculates the compensation when the ECT changes by a degree or so. Both datalogs have constant ECTs for some reason.

sashg - why is your ECT constant over quite varied driving conditions? Can you make a datalog from a cold start?

Hi
Thank you for your attention to our problem.
As I wrote above at cold start is no such problem. Amendment taken from the table of low load.
But when driving - compensation adjustments are taken from nowhere but certainly not from what I am trying to change.
I can send datalog cold start but everything is operating normally take my, though not a great experience.
Johnny_9 above showed you such data. I have all looks well.
I'll try to write soon a new datalog with cold start and driving under high load at different ECT.

[Hondata]

Johnny_9: what you are seeing is post start enrichment. The ECU uses the ECT compensation variable for this until the engine is warmed up.

[Johnny_9]

Noted. Just did another data-log. Below ECT 80C, the ECTc will "spike" over the ceiling of Fuel ECTc (high load), when the throttle is jabbed. Above ECT 80C, the ECTc will "stay in range" as set by Fuel ECTc (high load). I did this both for (a) within 30 seconds of start-up and (b) after 30 seconds of start-up from 35C-90C

Would be nice to have some visibility/data on the Post Start Fuel Adjustment the ECU uses at various ECTs :)?
i.e. at PS Fuel =0% & ECT 31C with the default Decay Rate/Steps how much additional fuel (%) is the ECU adding etc. What I understood was a at 0% PS Fuel, the ECU is still adding a certain default amount of extra fueling (within 30 secs of start-up) below 80C.

........................................................................................................................
Can we assume that that the Post Start Fuel is adjusted for Injector Size Compensation (Fuel Trim>Injectors, Current/Stock injector size)?

Does the TPS>Tip-In Fuel (Initial) settings have an impact on this? if TPS>Tip-In Fuel @ ECT 41C is set to 0, would this shut-off the TIP>Tip-in fuel (intial)?

[sashg]

Hi
I added some parts from one big log. It's start from warmup and continue driving.
PLS see doublecheck problem log with high load.
The problem is absent when ECT warmup more then 80C
Very big thanks for attention.
Sash

PS Full datalog in one session avaliable here http://disk.tom.ru/2xymmqs