Euro EP3 + K100 = high fuel consuption / low millage

[wally666]

First of all HI ALL!!

Friends, I'm newbie here but knowing the fact this forum is full of hondata geeks, im sure I'll find an answer to my query.

I'm driving Euro EP3 '04 with K20A2 engine + hondata heatshield + CAI Injen + Tegiwa 4-2-1 racing header + 2.36 custom exhaust + K100. After tuning the car I reached 220hp/230Nm which is not best but nice gain. Unfortunatelly, my fuel consuption as rised by 2-3 litres/100km and reached 13.5-14L/100km now (daily drive, not too agressive but also no lazy).

Currently I'm looking for a solution how to fix it and where to start with. I've exchanged my thermostat, 1st O2 sensor, temp. sensor. It doesn't matter if it's -20 or +20 deg. Celcius, I'm still hitting low mpg. Recently I bought ODB2 reader and I'm closely monitoring engine parameters and there's one factor I'm interested in- Engine Coolant Temp, this is what I noticed today.

Travel distance: ~20km (12miles)
Outside Temp: ~15C/60F

Coolant temp rise up to 78C after 3.2km/2miles (in 5 mins or so). After that, for next 25 minutes cooland temp. varies between 78C/172F and 83C/182F which stands in conflict with hondata manual saying it should be close 185-200F (85-93C). I can reach 185-200 only when standing in a traffic jam for few minutes.

Where is the fault hidden? Can engine coolant temp cause massive fuel consumption? How can I fix it - is it a matter of proper tuning of K100/kpro or maybe I should replace thermostat/temp. sensor again?

Thanks in advance!

Best,
Wally666

[Spunkster]

This is a tuning issue and can only be solved by reprogramming the ECU. Only your tuner can help you with this.

[wally666]

Thx but my tuner claims "smth's wrong with my car" and he doesnt event want to look into this case. We have changed ecu to the other one leaving my k100, we also changed k100 to kpro and he uploaded stock program but that didnt help either.

As per simple odb2 reader + gps my application calculated avg fuel consumpion @10.5l/100km which would be gr8 comparing with 13-14 that Im getting in a real world.

Just checked with friend using kpro that his temp are similar, question is what is sitting in my map. To troubleshoot i understand we would need to switch my k100 again to kpro and to collect some logs?

[doms22]

Hello
You need a good adjustment
I have a turbo euro ep3 K20a2 inj750cc ,rbc im ,full exh 3 ''
Me too it is my car for every day and to go to work
While driving calm, honestly i consume about 7 liters vpower ron98 shell gasoline :) .
And make some accelerations, the car consumes much more !! But this is normal :)

[wally666]

Right! Friends from local Type-R Club/EP Club also claim that something's wrong with either hondata program or with the car itself. Guys running on K24, Rotex, Comptech (260-280hp) are reporting ~11-12L/100km, max is 14L but in FN2 K24 with heavy mods when driving with WOT almost all the time...

One more thing - today after doing 330km I saw orange light next to fuel gauge - my car consumed 13.7L/100km and honestly, I wasn't driving like a maniac. Yes I do use vtec but in daily drive, I'm not hitting more than 4.5, max 5krpm - simply my exhaust is too loud to drive that way for a longer period.

Anyway, I hope you will at least suggest how to deal with this issue. It's not about the cost of the fuel (partially yes) but it's rather a case of fixing the car/program!

Many Thanks in advance

[wally666]

Hondata & other expert users - quick question!

Do you happen to know if Euro Honda CRV '04 2.0L (k20a4 engine, RD8 body) runs on wideband oxygen sensor?

[Spunkster]

I have no idea

[wally666]

Since Im K100 user and my local tuner is't really interested in helping me saying eveyrthing's ok with my map, I'm looking for pure facts which would prove my calibration is broken/poor so I would really, really appreciate your help.

I'm using odb2 reader to check par params during the drive and I noticed few interesting facts which may have any influence on my milage/consumption issues:
- TPS is showing min 8.6% when car is idle (i.e. standing in traffic jam), wont go any lower,
- TPS wont really show more than 90,6% even then I keep the gas pedal pushed as hard as I can,
- ODB claims my car is running in open loop even my TPS is @28-30%,
- cars is running in open loop while decelerating i.e. when take my foot from gas pedal while driving,

Rest of the params you can read from attached file. Please remember to change file ext. from *.txt to *.xls

I know it's not much and I'm pretty sure kpro datalog&map would solve my nightmare but since K100 does not have that function, I can't do more. I'm also planning to borrow wideband sensor with external display and do some measurements how rich/lean am I running in different conditions.

[Spunkster]

You need to upgrade to a K-Pro if you wich to trouble shoot your own problems and make changes. You do not even have a calibration and datalog we can look at.

[wally666]

Friends,
so here I am with set of fresh news. Just finished 1hr AFR measurement session with friend that owns external wideband o2 sensor and I'm quite sure where my problem is located. Let's start from the scratch

1. in idle AFR stands close to 14:7
2. in very, very light throttle it's close to 14:7
3. when cruising with constant speed it's close to 14:7 (with some variance)
4. in WOT it valies between 12:2 and 13:2
5. in light throttle, when normally/gently accelerating it hits down to 10:5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. by light acceleration i mean TPS between 28-35%

That I guess proves that there's no part throttle at all and cat has been only tuned to give max gains when driving with WOT.

Please help me analyzing attached log file which we recorder usign Innovate Motorsport wideband and Innovate's ODB2 software.

Log file:

Software needed to read the log file:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/supp ... 3Setup.exe

[wally666]

Hondata folks - please help me!!!

Kindly read my log file form Innovate wideband along with other sensors and advise if results I'm getting are normal (suspect not)

[Hondata]

It is either a) tuning or b) a hardware fault like an o2 sensor.
Without the calibration and datalogs it is not possible to further isolate where the problem lies.
You need to return to your tuner and get them to either re-tune the vehicle, or if there is something wrong with your car, temporarily return it to stock so that you can diagnose the problem.

[wally666]

I already asked my tuner to take a look at my logs & I have shared my concerns I listed above. Will take my care for diagnose/troubleshooting next week.

As for O2 sensor, how come it can be faulty - when runnig with constant speed or with light throttle (<25% TPS), it properly corrects AFR to 14,7:1. After passing TPS ~30% OBD2 claims i'm moving into open loop and AFR drops down to ~11-12:0. How can I check it by myself?

[Spunkster]

You need to upgrade to a K-Pro if you wich to trouble shoot your own problems and make changes. You do not even have a calibration and datalog we can look at.

Also you probably only have a narrow band O2 sensor.

[wally666]

Correct. Narrowband indeed. Hope my tuner will fix it, my other friend with fn2 and jrsc (345hp) wont consume more than 14-15litres/100km even when he's pushing hard