Playing russian roullete with KNOCKING! Please help. h22 map

[tb144050]

I am still in desperate need of some guidance or a good BASEmap that will get me safely on the road until I can afford to get my s300 professionally tuned.

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Setup:
1995 Honda Accord 4dr
H22a1
Probably jdm 345cc injectors (but how can I tell them apart from 290's??)
Skunk2 Intake Manifold
Skunk2 Throttle body
some kind of headers (cheap ebay...came with motor)
p72 Hondata ecu

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I have been following randoms posts about building a basemap for H22...no positive results.

Even with the best running map I have (came programmed on ECU), I am experiencing every problem I can imagine:

1. Sluggish response

2. In closed loop, I run extremely rich (10-11's lambda and a .69 on my a/f hondata scale) on my narrowband o2 sensor.
(I know...get a wideband) Everything I have tried will not lower my richness!! (Changing injector size; lowering normal fuel values by subtraction; lowering fuel values by percentage; adjusting fuel compensation based on IAT and ECT)...I am consistently at 10-11 Lambda in ALL cells, and .69-74 a/f in hondata scale.

3. HARDDD knocking in quick acceration (starts around 3-4k rpms)...sounds like a diesel truck starting up!! IT IS LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS KNOCKING! I only drive this car to test tunes.

4. Low idle...usually at 650 warmed up, even though I set min idle at 850.

5. Will not idle when cold...it will try to idle at ~400 rpms for a second then dies. I have to hold throttle for a few minutes, then it rough idles at 600-650 rpms.

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So this is the part where everyone tells me I am an idiot for not taking it to a tuner. My friend traded for a 97 prelude with motor drivability issues. He offered to trade his skunk2 intake mani and sk2 throttle body AND his p72 hondata ecu for all my STOCK h22 parts and p13 ecu. I made a smart trade but need a reliable BASEmap, and yes, I know it will not be the most powerful because it will not be TUNED to my motor. I just want to safely drive my car while I build it up further before tuning it in the future.

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So please, please...I need a reliable safe h22 map that doesn't run like a diesel!! If it is so easy to modify a p72, please "modify" it and post it up for me because I have tried and failed. I will study it, run it, and gladly post my results.

I will also post up my best running map and maybe someone can spot some simple reason for the symptoms above. After warming up, it seeeeems to be driveable under 3k rpms...atleast no knocking, no dying, and not alot of hesitation if you keep throttle under 40%.

--TJ

[AREA876]

When tuning it's best to tune in open loop, and you really need to have a wideband to know where your A/F ratio is at.
You need to input the correct stock and current injector size (345 or 290)

[tb144050]

When tuning it's best to tune in open loop, and you really need to have a wideband to know where your A/F ratio is at.
You need to input the correct stock and current injector size (345 or 290)

I can't afford to buy a wideband right now or anytime soon. Is there a place that rents any kind of tool for this, like o'reillys?

When I set it to open loop, my lambda readings go up to 17.77 in every cell. I assume this is because openloop does more than just ignore sensor readings...it actually turns off the o2 sensor??

And I do not know what size injectors I am using. :( First, I bought a 92 prelude with a blown motor (h23). I bought a JDM h22a and put in it. Drove it for 3 years (stock) until I bought a 95 accord with a blown headgasket in the F22 motor. I swapped the JDM h22a into the accord. One day the timing belt broke and the motor blew. Now I have swapped in a USDM h22a1. Over the years, I have lost my confidence in knowing WHICH injectors I am using...US h23, or the JDM h22?

I still have the headgasket blown f22 sitting in my shop..what size injectors are on it? Should I use them since I KNOW they are the stock f22 injectors and have no uncertainly about their size?

[AREA876]

1992-96 Prelude non-vtec Peak and hold 240cc
1992-96 Prelude VTEC (H22a) Peak and hold 345cc
1997-up Prelude VTEC (H22a4) Saturated 280cc

1990-1997 Accord USDM F22A1-6 - F22B1-2 Non VTEC & VTEC Peak and hold 240cc

[tb144050]

1992-96 Prelude non-vtec Peak and hold 240cc
1992-96 Prelude VTEC (H22a) Peak and hold 345cc
1997-up Prelude VTEC (H22a4) Saturated 280cc

1990-1997 Accord USDM F22A1-6 - F22B1-2 Non VTEC & VTEC Peak and hold 240cc

Thanks for the rate info!! Very helpful indeed!!

Is there anything physically different that I can use to identify which injectors I am using?

I am running realllly rich in a 92-96 Prelude VTEC motor so it calls for "Peak and hold 345cc". I am using "peak and hold" injectors with a resistor box (as p & h injectors require)...problem is that if anything, I should be running lean if I put in my old non-vtec injectors by mistake.

I am considering putting in my accord injectors (240) to see if that leans it up..lol j/k

[gherrera06]

1992-96 Prelude non-vtec Peak and hold 240cc
1992-96 Prelude VTEC (H22a) Peak and hold 345cc
1997-up Prelude VTEC (H22a4) Saturated 280cc

1990-1997 Accord USDM F22A1-6 - F22B1-2 Non VTEC & VTEC Peak and hold 240cc

Thanks for the rate info!! Very helpful indeed!!

Is there anything physically different that I can use to identify which injectors I am using?

I am running realllly rich in a 92-96 Prelude VTEC motor so it calls for "Peak and hold 345cc". I am using "peak and hold" injectors with a resistor box (as p & h injectors require)...problem is that if anything, I should be running lean if I put in my old non-vtec injectors by mistake.

I am considering putting in my accord injectors (240) to see if that leans it up..lol j/k

H22a JDM comes with 310cc injectors, I did tune my H22 with that fuel trim and works great for N/A setting, I still have those calibrations if you are interested.

[TPI]

Can you post a datalog? just post one on a 3erd gear. Does it still knock in closed loop? also have you tried using the H22a map from hondata to see how it runs?

[Monnoracing]

see if this helps

[tb144050]

gherrera06, I would absolutely love to get your tunes. I finally have a wideband setup (PLX Devices). I put it in today and look forward to tinkering with the tune, but I need a good base map to start with.

Everyone says that the h22 map that came with the software isn't any good, and everyone recommends using the integra basemap. I have been using the integra basemap since I installed the hondata ecu and it has always seemed to run rich.

Today when I got finished hooking up the PLX setup, I started the car and the PLX gauge said I was at 10.4 (wayyyyy rich). I can NOT WAIT until I have time to start tuning. :(

Thanks,

--TJ

[TPI]

Damn yea you are rich. lol Well good luck. Also yea the stock H22 map was screwing up this prelude the other day. Doing an ITB tune on it tomorrow.

[tb144050]

Damn yea you are rich. lol Well good luck. Also yea the stock H22 map was screwing up this prelude the other day. Doing an ITB tune on it tomorrow.

What is an "ITB tune"? If it runs good, can you please upload for the rest of us. I need a good base to start with. My only engine mod is the sk2 intake/tb, so I should be able to take a good basemap and just tweak it to account for a little more airflow.

Thanks,

--TJ

[TPI]

individual throttle body's. they tune differant then a normal tune. I have to use the TPS not the MAP.

[tb144050]

individual throttle body's. they tune differant then a normal tune. I have to use the TPS not the MAP.

awww :(