Everything I've found about the stock injectors in the '06+ S2000 indicates that they are 360cc, but FlashPro manager shows them to be 310cc. According to Injector-Rehab's Spec List the dead times also differ from what is in FlashPro Manager. Can you confirm which is correct?
FWIW, this difference also seems to explain why the stock "tuned" S2000 calibration has lower fuel values than the starting calibrations for larger injectors.
Are the "Stock Injector Sizes" wrong in FlashPro M
Are the "Stock Injector Sizes" wrong in FlashPro M
'06 NFR S2000
I believe the stock AP2 injectors flow between 310 and 320cc/min at 3 bar when we flowed them. In any case, the injector size is a relative value used for adjusting fuel so it will only make a difference when changing injectors.
We have found the injector rehab dead times to be about 20% lower than the actual dead times for most injector sizes.
We have found the injector rehab dead times to be about 20% lower than the actual dead times for most injector sizes.
Hondata
Thanks for the reply. I realize that the injector size is relative. I asked because I'm about to replace my OEM injectors with Siemens Deka 675 CC injectors, and want to have all my info straightened out before I get started.
When I started comparing the other starting calibrations that you provide for larger injectors, I expected the fuel tables to be identical to the stock tuned or stock equivelent tables. I figured the main differences would be in the injector settings, but I see that the fuel tables are actually different.[/code]
When I started comparing the other starting calibrations that you provide for larger injectors, I expected the fuel tables to be identical to the stock tuned or stock equivelent tables. I figured the main differences would be in the injector settings, but I see that the fuel tables are actually different.[/code]
'06 NFR S2000
I compared all the fuel tables in the starting calibrations that you provide for the S2000 to the fuel tables in the "S2000 Tuned" calibration. The fuel values are all 7-10% higher than the values in the S2000 Tuned calibration. Is this because the larger injectors you used aren't flowing as close to their rated capacities (in comparison to the stock injectors), or because you targetted a richer AFR when you created those calibrations?
It turns out that my new Siemens Deka injectors are rated for 630cc/min at 300 kPa, but based on my findings above, it seems like I should enter 590 cc/min in the injectors size tables so that my current tune will be closer to target. Does this sound correct?
It turns out that my new Siemens Deka injectors are rated for 630cc/min at 300 kPa, but based on my findings above, it seems like I should enter 590 cc/min in the injectors size tables so that my current tune will be closer to target. Does this sound correct?
'06 NFR S2000
The injector latency comes into play here as well. A significant increase in latency will make up for the disparity in IPW in the low load areas. Under high load any scaling issues will become more apparent.Gernby wrote:I compared all the fuel tables in the starting calibrations that you provide for the S2000 to the fuel tables in the "S2000 Tuned" calibration. The fuel values are all 7-10% higher than the values in the S2000 Tuned calibration. Is this because the larger injectors you used aren't flowing as close to their rated capacities (in comparison to the stock injectors), or because you targetted a richer AFR when you created those calibrations?
It turns out that my new Siemens Deka injectors are rated for 630cc/min at 300 kPa, but based on my findings above, it seems like I should enter 590 cc/min in the injectors size tables so that my current tune will be closer to target. Does this sound correct?
All injectors flow differently as their IPW increases and most don't even flow linearly, so expecting to see the IPW values to even be close to similar between different sizes/brands (even at the proper scaler values) is unrealistic.
I got it figured out quicker than I thought I would yesterday. It wound up being one of those rare projects that winds up being easier than you thought.
The injectors were surprisingly easy to install, and tuning was a breeze. I started with the lag time chart from the spec sheet, and used the correction factor for fuel pressure (also from the spec sheet), and entered the new injector size. It started up on the first try, and the fast idle was fine. However, once it warmed up, the idle got rough, since I forgot to increase the max allowable S Trim from +/- 5%. Once I increased that, it drove fine, but the trims were pretty large, especially at idle.
The live tuning feature for lag times made it super easy to bring the trims back down at idle. I just increased the whole lag time table a few percent at a time until the trims were small. Then I did some part throttle driving to see what happened with the trims on the rest of the map, and tweaked the injector size and lag times together until the whole low cam fuel map had low trims. I didn't have to change any values in the low cam fuel map. However, the high cam fuel map was off in the upper RPMs. I had to add probably 5% above 7K RPMs to bring the AFR back into spec.
The good news is that I seem to have picked up a few ft-lbs of torque up top. I've done quite a few datalogs, over the last 24 hours that show a consistent gain above 7K. My fuel curve also follows my torque curve better now. I guess that means the Deka injectors are more linear than my OEM injectors were ...
The injectors were surprisingly easy to install, and tuning was a breeze. I started with the lag time chart from the spec sheet, and used the correction factor for fuel pressure (also from the spec sheet), and entered the new injector size. It started up on the first try, and the fast idle was fine. However, once it warmed up, the idle got rough, since I forgot to increase the max allowable S Trim from +/- 5%. Once I increased that, it drove fine, but the trims were pretty large, especially at idle.
The live tuning feature for lag times made it super easy to bring the trims back down at idle. I just increased the whole lag time table a few percent at a time until the trims were small. Then I did some part throttle driving to see what happened with the trims on the rest of the map, and tweaked the injector size and lag times together until the whole low cam fuel map had low trims. I didn't have to change any values in the low cam fuel map. However, the high cam fuel map was off in the upper RPMs. I had to add probably 5% above 7K RPMs to bring the AFR back into spec.
The good news is that I seem to have picked up a few ft-lbs of torque up top. I've done quite a few datalogs, over the last 24 hours that show a consistent gain above 7K. My fuel curve also follows my torque curve better now. I guess that means the Deka injectors are more linear than my OEM injectors were ...
'06 NFR S2000