08 Si hard to start

mattminer · Post by **mattminer** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:08 am

Ive got an 08 Si here that Im looking at. Its had trouble starting w flashpro from day one, you have to crank it over for 2-3x the normal amount of time and then it fires up kind of stumbly.

We just installed a JRSC, injectors, and tuned the car, I hoped the starting stumble would just go away, but its pretty much the same as it was before. Ive tried adjusting the cranking fuel trim both ways, and adjusting the ignition timing at <1000 RPM and atmospheric pressure without much change.

Besides the starting issue, the car runs like a champ!

Any ideas/hints/tips?

M@

Post by **Spunkster** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:51 am

Can you post the calibration and a datalog showing the problem?

mattminer · Post by **mattminer** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:06 pm

Id rather not post the custom calibration publicly, but it did it on an unmodified Civic-Si-Race-2-Tuned-RH map and on the Civic-Si-Race-7-JRSC unmodified save for correct injector scalar and latencies.

When the car was not supercharged, reverting to the stock map fixed the issue.

I can get a datalog of it this afternoon during an extended start. I was hoping it would be as simple as adjusting the cranking fuel trim, but that didnt seem to work.

M@

Post by **Spunkster** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:30 pm

This sounds like a tuning issue. I would suggest taking at back to whoever tuned it, especially since you don't want to post the calibration.

mattminer · Post by **mattminer** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:01 pm

What part of the tuning do you think is wrong? It did the same thing, like I said, when the car simply had a header and was on the unmodified Civic-Si-Race-2-Tuned-RH map and it did it after the JRSC install just the same on the Civic-Si-Race-7-JRSC unmodified save for correct injector scalar and latencies.

When the car only had a header, flashing back to the stock map resolved the problem. I cant flash it back to stock anymore because of the larger injectors and the lack of a MAF sensor haha.

In any event, I will datalog what is happening, and certainly will entertain ideas from anyone. After changing the cranking trim didnt make a difference I hoped that changing the starting ignition timing would, but it didnt. Im not sure what else would affect starting :(

Basically, to get it to start just takes like 2x as long as it did stock, and when it does begin to start it kind of ramps up slower. I can probably get a video of it as well.

M@

mattminer · Post by **mattminer** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:25 pm

Here is the datalog, and some pictures for people that dont wnat to open the datalogger :)

Cranking starts at about 1 second, car begins to start just before 4 seconds and takes another half second to 'clear itself up'

M@

Post by **Hondata** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:45 am

A calibration would help. What have you altered the injector scalar and latencies to?

Also pull the spark plugs and check they are clean.

Pir8pete · Post by **Pir8pete** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:39 am

I've got the ct-e s/c with stage 2 (3.15 pulley) and reflash and i'm having the same issue. :(

Flashpro is on it's way, hope i'll fix it for me!

Here's a video of one of my cold starts -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1flz4rD5to

Pir8pete · Post by **Pir8pete** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:44 am

mattminer wrote:Id rather not post the custom calibration publicly, but it did it on an unmodified Civic-Si-Race-2-Tuned-RH map and on the Civic-Si-Race-7-JRSC unmodified save for correct injector scalar and latencies.

When the car was not supercharged, reverting to the stock map fixed the issue.

I can get a datalog of it this afternoon during an extended start. I was hoping it would be as simple as adjusting the cranking fuel trim, but that didnt seem to work.

M@

I see ppl say this way too much,whats the big deal in posting it, every cars different anyways? I wouldn't run someones else's modded map! you never know what could be modified!

mattminer · Post by **mattminer** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:15 pm

thanks for the reply

plugs are good, injector scalar is 715 and the latencies are 1974, 1354, 1040, 794, and 670 for 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16 volts

They are the Bosch / Injector Dynamics injectors.

pir8pete, you are not like most people. tons of people would download it and run it as is. you are saying that if you went and paid $500 for a map youd have no problem making it publicly available? and the tuner would be ok with that too? that is not the case here, but Im not going to publicly post private calibrations.

This whole thing kind of sucks, because teh car is at the point of (hard to or) no return, Ive got to get this starting thing straightened out.

The reason I pin it on the flashpro is because it didnt do it on the stock map, but it did on the stock calibration with flashpro. I could go back and forth and easily replicate the starting problem.

Thanks for any help.

M@

Post by **Hondata** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:04 pm

We have found that the spray pattern from the injector dymanics gives a longer cranking time than stock - 2-3 seconds would be normal. Also the lag times off the sheet need to be increased by 0.15ms or so.

The only way to troubleshoot an injector starting problem is to go back to stock, datalog, then switch calibrations, and check that the starting behaviour is the same.

mattminer · Post by **mattminer** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:39 am

ok, ill adjust the latencies and see what that does. I have bosch's on 2 other cars without this issue (a WRX tuned with opensource and my crx tuned on neptune)

once again though, it did the same thing with stock injectors, I cant make that clear enough. The starting issue did not change between the bosch;s or the stockers. When I had teh stock injectors still in, unmarrying the flashpro fixed the starting problem. Then Id flash any supplied map on and it would be hard to start. Its not just htat it takes a long time to start, but also that when it does it barely gets going...it takes a few seconds for it to sound normal after a start.

Im willing to try anything to fix it, but I dont need to put the stock injectors back in because the starting issue was preexisting.

M@

Post by **Hondata** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:22 am

The only way to troubleshoot an injector starting problem is to go back to stock, datalog, then switch calibrations, and check that the starting behaviour is the same.

mattminer · Post by **mattminer** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:06 am

classic hondata....great, Ill figure it out on my own I guess. I cant just 'go back to stock', I dont have an AFM or stock injectors. When the car DID have a stock AFM and stock injectors removing the FlashPRO fixed the starting issue, once I went back to the FlashPRO the starting problem came back. This was 100 percent repeatable. Now Im at a point where I cant just go back to stock, so Ill just deal with it not starting easy and keep my eye on the other people having cold start issues to see what their fix is.

Im sure some update will come out down the line and the problem will magically resolve itself, or some fix will become public knowledge.

Now that the new compensation tables showed up in the beta version, I will attempt adjusting those to resolve the problem. Its nice to have access to more of the tables instead of a small subset. I hate looking like an idiot sitting their cranking the car and having it barely start up.

If I figure it out Ill post back up here.

M@

all-black · Post by **all-black** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:10 am

i have cold starting problems also. im running a k24 fully built 12.5 1 with rdx injectors i have had the cold start problem when i was running stock injectors on my k20 also. it seems that i have to crank the car for a long time then re turn over the car and then the car will start but it starts very bogged down it climbs from maybe 300 rpms up to idle 1500 very slow then once it clears out runs fine it ha something to do with cranking fuel im guessing