Major drivability problems after software update

BabyNSX · Post by **BabyNSX** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:29 pm

I've just updated to Smanager 1.4.1.0 after a couple years of not updating. I cant recall the old version I was running but it was atleast a couple years old.

This morning I installed the new Smanager software and plugged my ECU into my laptop and proceeded to update my ECU. I was imediately asked to update my ECU firmware. After updating the firmware everything seemed fine.

I updated the ECU with the same map I was running and started the car up. After idling for about a minute the engine died... hmm that was odd.

I then took the car for a drive and after about 1 min I noticed that something was very wrong.

The engine developed major surging which is completely un-drivable.

I have a PLX WB O2 sensor and what I noticed was that the O2 readings were pegged at 19.9/1 durring these surgging periods.

I spent alot of time today going through the varios software settings (to see what might be different) and it apears that the surging is almost entirely a result of running in closed loop. Running open loop eliminates the surging.

The base maps also seem to be all wrong now. I had to add alot of fuel just to get the engine to start running again.

Is there anyway to undo what I've done as far as the software is concerned? or is there something in the new software that might be causing my problems that simply needs to be adjusted.

Thanks,
Doug

fly_n · Post by **fly_n** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:59 pm

post your cal

i had similar issue when update few years ago,we use degC over here & all my idle temps got stuffed up when i updated for some reason...
just check thru things like that,or even your overrun fuel cut in the TPS tab.

also use the 1.4.2 update in the stickys above,1.4.1 had a few issues with datalog,etc

BabyNSX · Post by **BabyNSX** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:10 am

Partial solution was to start off with a new MAP from Smanager and simply copy over my fuel/ignition tables and parameter settings.

The car is running better now but there are still some issues that have to be sorted out. I've had to play around with the fuel compensation alot and it seems like my maps may need to be adusted now. But the problem with the open/closed loop control is completely gone.

I'm positive that my old program got scrambled some how when migrating to the new version...

Oh... if only I could turn back time and go back to the way it was... it seems I'm going to have to invest in alot more tunning time and another trip to the Dyno to get her running smoothly again.

Not very impressed so far...

Doug

fly_n · Post by **fly_n** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:12 pm

shouldve tucked away the original good working cal & did a 'save as' before u started fiddling the fuel maps.
that way u couldve just copied over the known good values.
same with most software,always give yourself the option to revert.

pvt_awol · Post by **pvt_awol** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:17 pm

holy crap.

I've been messing with my car for weeks now, and I'm almost positive my problem is the same as yours.

My car was fine, then I hooked up my laptop to change the temp when the radiator fan would come on, and it forced me to update my firmware and software.

then crap hit the fan. My VTEC doesn't work right, the car bogs, and surges.... what the heck?

if ANYONE comes up with a fix, please let me know ASAP also. I'm awaiting "spunkster" to reply to this. This is bad. I can't afford $400 to have the car re-tuned, just because of a software update.

BabyNSX · Post by **BabyNSX** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:21 am

From what you have just discribed you are experiencing the exact same problem as me.

My solution got the car running again but the state of tune was not the same. Luckely I have a WB 02 perminently installed and I've been street tuning for the past few days just to get the car running right again...

Haven't heard from anyone at Hondata on this...

Doug

pvt_awol wrote:holy crap.

I've been messing with my car for weeks now, and I'm almost positive my problem is the same as yours.

My car was fine, then I hooked up my laptop to change the temp when the radiator fan would come on, and it forced me to update my firmware and software.

then crap hit the fan. My VTEC doesn't work right, the car bogs, and surges.... what the heck?

if ANYONE comes up with a fix, please let me know ASAP also. I'm awaiting "spunkster" to reply to this. This is bad. I can't afford $400 to have the car re-tuned, just because of a software update.

Post by **Spunkster** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:21 am

Did you download the clibration from the ECU?

BabyNSX · Post by **BabyNSX** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:08 pm

Spunkster wrote:Did you download the clibration from the ECU?

No I simply opened up my old calibration and loaded it into the ECU.

Post by **Spunkster** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:35 pm

post both the before and after calibrations

BabyNSX · Post by **BabyNSX** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:04 pm

Spunkster wrote:post both the before and after calibrations

I've attached the old and new maps with this message.

One problem I seem to be having is with the idle... While it normaly seems to settle fine, on ocasion it just wants to die and I have to give it gas to keep it running. A/F seems fine at around 15-16/1 which is needed for my Skunk2 Pro1 cams to idle. This is a new problem that didn't exist with the old software.

Another small one seems to be that throttle tip-in seems to lean out the A/F alot. This is a bigger problem in 1st/2nd gear when I hit the throttle. I'm running 10% enrichment and the maps otherwise give me proper A/F when in steady state.

Thanks for your effort with this.

Doug

Post by **Spunkster** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:43 am

I have compared the 2 calibrations and they are different, however if i take the original file, load it into Smanager 1.4.2.0 and save and then check , it is not changing it to the same thing as the second file you posted. So it seams you have made significant changes to the 2nd calibration on your own.

BabyNSX · Post by **BabyNSX** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:59 am

Spunkster wrote:I have compared the 2 calibrations and they are different, however if i take the original file, load it into Smanager 1.4.2.0 and save and then check , it is not changing it to the same thing as the second file you posted. So it seams you have made significant changes to the 2nd calibration on your own.

Yes... they are VERY different. The situation is that when using the original file and the old version of Smanager the car ran fine. When using the original file with the latest version of Smanager the car was completely not drivable.

I then started a new MAP and copied my old tables in. This got the car running but still needed alot of tuning and other adjustments to get things running well. This is why you see alot of differences between the two files.

I've since spent alot more time street tuning and have the car more or less running how I want it. But again... this calibration is very different from my original file that was in the car for nearly 2 years.

I'm attaching my latest calibration for your review...

I've adjusted the ECT compensation a little to acount for my Mugen thermostat that keeps the ECT low under most driving conditions. I believe this was contributing to my bumper getting black. A problem I had even with my old calibration.

Thanks,
Doug

Jaker · Post by **Jaker** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:20 pm

Those colder thermostats lead to tuning problems that you may never be able to resolve. The Honda engine management looks for 176 (I think) degrees before it stops looking to the cold start fuel enrichment tables. If you never let it get to 176, you'll forever be chasing your tail.

BabyNSX · Post by **BabyNSX** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:54 pm

Jaker wrote:Those colder thermostats lead to tuning problems that you may never be able to resolve. The Honda engine management looks for 176 (I think) degrees before it stops looking to the cold start fuel enrichment tables. If you never let it get to 176, you'll forever be chasing your tail.

The tables you are talking about I believe are in the Fuel Compensation section and are exactly what I adjusted so that there was less enrichment just as the engine was heating up. Or in my case... as the thermistate locked the engine to run at a slightly lower temperature.

Post by **Spunkster** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:42 am

http://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9845