Background changes
Background changes
Why did Hondata decide to alter changes to the fuel maps in the background when keying the new injector size rather than change the base maps so the actual values can be seen?
you have to stop thinking of the fuel map values like they actually mean something.Quade wrote:Please shed some light.
all u need to know is that say for example,
fuel value 100= fuel value 100
90<100
110>100
200 = twice as much fuel as 100
etc.
think of it like an old analogue TV set.
-u select a channel u want to watch,to get u close to the station,ie fuel trim say channel 240cc.
-then u go to the fine tuning knob(which has no numbers on it,it just either the same or up & down) to get a good picture on the channel you selected,ie fuel map make number the same or up & down.
-u then find u cant even get a good picture on that channel,cos of some interference or something,so u say,stuff this im going to watch another channel,say fuel trim channel 310cc.
- then u go back to fine tune knob(fuel map) & try get a clear picture on that channel.
it would be a real bitch if your TV was just a fine tuning knob & no channel selector,it would take u 5 mins of turning the knob just to get between channels.
the numbers on the fuel map are just like having a whole bunch of fine tuning knobs stuck to your computer screen,but since this would be just dumb,they use numbers instead .
I understand perfectly. However the fuel trim setting would do the same thing to the entire map as scaling the injectors and this could also be done in such a way to change the actual map values. Then you would just go to the fuel map and fine tune the resulting values. Dont flame. I just think it would be easier to compare maps cuz as it is I could have a fuel value of 1000 in the idle range on my map using 1000cc injectors and then take that fuelling out using the fuel trim setting or scaling the injector settings in such a way to reduce the fuelling. Whereas another map with 100 in the idle range could very well be providing the same fuelling in that range with the correct fuel trim or injector settings. Just seems like a strange way to do it that's all.
no flaming intended.
thats the thing,
if u work from the one base map & just trim the injector size,the fuel values remain roughly the same.
so now that all the headache out of trying to calculate durations & duty cycles between different injectors is taken away,u can then get on with the simple task of adding or subtracting the fuelling from say your 100 idle value.
when u change the injectors or fuel pressure,obviously your engine capacity &/or the amount of air being introduced into the motor doesnt change.
so why would u want the fuel map values, that uve just become a little familiar with, to change to totally different values.
u put a 1000cc injector in place of a 240cc,in the same motor setup,u still want the injector to spray say about 100 fuel value worth of fuel at idle.
the only thing that will be different is the characteristics of the injector operation have changed(between different size injectors & even brand),so u might have to fiddle the 100 value a little bit to make it spray the same as 100 for the 240cc. But it will be roughly the same & near enough by just adjusting the fuel trim first,to get the motor back to running as it was with the 240cc's,just probably not as finely tuned.
thats the thing,
if u work from the one base map & just trim the injector size,the fuel values remain roughly the same.
so now that all the headache out of trying to calculate durations & duty cycles between different injectors is taken away,u can then get on with the simple task of adding or subtracting the fuelling from say your 100 idle value.
when u change the injectors or fuel pressure,obviously your engine capacity &/or the amount of air being introduced into the motor doesnt change.
so why would u want the fuel map values, that uve just become a little familiar with, to change to totally different values.
u put a 1000cc injector in place of a 240cc,in the same motor setup,u still want the injector to spray say about 100 fuel value worth of fuel at idle.
the only thing that will be different is the characteristics of the injector operation have changed(between different size injectors & even brand),so u might have to fiddle the 100 value a little bit to make it spray the same as 100 for the 240cc. But it will be roughly the same & near enough by just adjusting the fuel trim first,to get the motor back to running as it was with the 240cc's,just probably not as finely tuned.
i probably shouldnt have said the fuel values have "no meaning",instead a better choice of words would of been ,"no unit".
once u get stuck into it,the fuel values do start to have a meaning,ie u get familiar with them & what u should expect to be seeing & can even relate it to different motor setups,but thats providing that fuel trim changes dont start changing the numbers in the fuel tables.
its better to keep the same fuel table numbers, as u get more familiar with what adding say 2% fuel will do to the AFRs,because your working within the same sort of number ranges all the time.
once u get stuck into it,the fuel values do start to have a meaning,ie u get familiar with them & what u should expect to be seeing & can even relate it to different motor setups,but thats providing that fuel trim changes dont start changing the numbers in the fuel tables.
its better to keep the same fuel table numbers, as u get more familiar with what adding say 2% fuel will do to the AFRs,because your working within the same sort of number ranges all the time.
Hey fly_n I just wanted to let you know that the weekend went great with the tuning. I still have a different view in terms of the fuel map values vs injector size, lol, but I would say that everything makes sense and I have a comprehensive knowledge of tuning my car. I upgraded from 550cc injectors to 1000cc and the idle was great with minor adjustments. I then wired up my 3bar map sensor and again positive response from Hondata with the settings. The Autotune feature makes tuning easy....... I like it. All I would like now is the secondary intake runner kit for my ecu to work my second stage in the manifold. Thanks for the discussion.