I got a 2004 uk civic type-r with jackson supercharger, carbon induction kit, dc sports exhaust, stock header and lots of nice suspension mods :D
To my delight it has a K-Pro fitted so after downloading your software did a datalog and noticed that the car knocks quite a bit at high revs. I don't know much about kal files or knock yet but have attached the kal and datalog files to see if anyone can shed some light on the situation.....
I'm worried that i might damage my engine so would really appreciate some advice.
How bad is knock?
How bad is knock?
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Last edited by carbonctr on Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
opinion from learner
im still learning Kpro , and im just gonna tell you what id do in this case. i just found this site tonite and cant wait to learn from people who know this software inside and out. ive watched the seminars , read as much as can be found. only way to learn more is watching people who know how to tune , tune.
always make sure you run the best quality gasoline available at the pumps , 91 in most cases , 93 in some places. 93 is the highest ive heard of from pumps. im from canada and we cant even get 93 , 91 highest and from what ive seen so far with playing with kpro is our 91 , aint 91 , lol.
since you know it knocks now , fix it before doing another run. go into your high cam ignition tables , check the little box that says edit all tables. open your last datalog. define template so you can see at what rpm knock occurs. pull the dotted slider to were the first knock occurs. go back to tables , the 4 red boxes will indicate what part of the map is being used by the ecu at the time it occured. say first knock is at 6250 rpm , well assume the 6250 and 6500 rpm rows under colunms 11 and 12 are red. square group of 4. if i were you , depending on how many knocks , and where they occur , id highlight all 3 columns 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , and 13 from 6000-redline rpm. right click , adjust , percentage adjustment , -10%. do another pull , see if knock occurs again. always watch A/R , specially you since your FI. for you , to be safe , me personally , id stay below 12.5:1 at all times.
you should always be listening for knock and where it happens and make adjustments to fix it right away. for instance , i left work the other day , me and a buddy. left a stop sign , proceeded to drive up a fairly steep hill , long. got into 2nd gear , i could hear the detonation , even though my datalog wasnt picking it up , nor was the cel flashing. when i got into 3rd gear , it got worse with more load , as it does , and the cel flashed and counter went up 3 knocks. this was under light crusing throttle , around 3k rpm. so i datalogged when it occured , drove up and down that hill for 4 hours , hahaa. pulled timing on low cam until all knock was gone under any conditions. than went at A/F till i was happy with it on low cam with vtec set to 6k.
anyways , like i said , im new to Kpro as wel , this is just my learning i guess , newcommer advice , i hope others chime in and give us opinions. good luck dude.
always make sure you run the best quality gasoline available at the pumps , 91 in most cases , 93 in some places. 93 is the highest ive heard of from pumps. im from canada and we cant even get 93 , 91 highest and from what ive seen so far with playing with kpro is our 91 , aint 91 , lol.
since you know it knocks now , fix it before doing another run. go into your high cam ignition tables , check the little box that says edit all tables. open your last datalog. define template so you can see at what rpm knock occurs. pull the dotted slider to were the first knock occurs. go back to tables , the 4 red boxes will indicate what part of the map is being used by the ecu at the time it occured. say first knock is at 6250 rpm , well assume the 6250 and 6500 rpm rows under colunms 11 and 12 are red. square group of 4. if i were you , depending on how many knocks , and where they occur , id highlight all 3 columns 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , and 13 from 6000-redline rpm. right click , adjust , percentage adjustment , -10%. do another pull , see if knock occurs again. always watch A/R , specially you since your FI. for you , to be safe , me personally , id stay below 12.5:1 at all times.
you should always be listening for knock and where it happens and make adjustments to fix it right away. for instance , i left work the other day , me and a buddy. left a stop sign , proceeded to drive up a fairly steep hill , long. got into 2nd gear , i could hear the detonation , even though my datalog wasnt picking it up , nor was the cel flashing. when i got into 3rd gear , it got worse with more load , as it does , and the cel flashed and counter went up 3 knocks. this was under light crusing throttle , around 3k rpm. so i datalogged when it occured , drove up and down that hill for 4 hours , hahaa. pulled timing on low cam until all knock was gone under any conditions. than went at A/F till i was happy with it on low cam with vtec set to 6k.
anyways , like i said , im new to Kpro as wel , this is just my learning i guess , newcommer advice , i hope others chime in and give us opinions. good luck dude.
Last edited by cranny on Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
your datalog is showing your knocking a ton after about 6250 rpm. but its funny , i load your datalog and your A/F ratio stays 14.7 the whole time on my graph , wierd. whats your air fuel ratio at average during a pull? you seem to be running conservative enough of timing. maybe your knock lies in A/F ratio mostly. but i cant see it.
I'll try reducing the ignition and see how it goes....cranny wrote:your datalog is showing your knocking a ton after about 6250 rpm. but its funny , i load your datalog and your A/F ratio stays 14.7 the whole time on my graph , wierd. whats your air fuel ratio at average during a pull? you seem to be running conservative enough of timing. maybe your knock lies in A/F ratio mostly. but i cant see it.
My car has a narrowband o2 senson which I think can only know if it is below or above 14.7 - not exact values. I don't think I can change it to a wideband like you have in the US as I'm not sure the pra ecu can accept one.
Plus, I always fill with 99RON Shell V-Power fuel here in UK.
It seemed to knock a bit less after reducing the suspect ignition area (6250 rpm upwards col 11-13) by 2 deg, but I didn't get a chance to datalog. Will datalog soon and see how the knock count differs. I don't know if 2 deg reduction would really make a noticable difference but it did seem a bit slower....
I have the same problem. Retarding the ignition didn't seem to stop the knock but I think it was reduced. I haven't managed to datalog with my latest calibration yet but will post the results when I do.
Could it just be phantom knock as fonz600 mentioned in this post?
http://hondata.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7542
Could it just be phantom knock as fonz600 mentioned in this post?
http://hondata.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7542
It is real knock - knock around peak torque usually is.
The exact timing you need varies with fuel, temperature, boost, exhaust etc, but I would not expect to see over 20 degrees timing in columns 11 and above. Also the ignition drops off sharply above 7500 rpm, whereas it should be almost flat down the rev range with a supercharger. Both ignition and fuel tables are very bumpy - look at the 40 degree high cam fuel table compared with the 30 and 50. Also look at the rapid change in fuel around 100 kPA. In short, the fuel & ignition tables need re-tuning.
The exact timing you need varies with fuel, temperature, boost, exhaust etc, but I would not expect to see over 20 degrees timing in columns 11 and above. Also the ignition drops off sharply above 7500 rpm, whereas it should be almost flat down the rev range with a supercharger. Both ignition and fuel tables are very bumpy - look at the 40 degree high cam fuel table compared with the 30 and 50. Also look at the rapid change in fuel around 100 kPA. In short, the fuel & ignition tables need re-tuning.
Hondata
My car was mapped on the dyno last year. Do you think it was not done properly?Hondata wrote:It is real knock - knock around peak torque usually is.
The exact timing you need varies with fuel, temperature, boost, exhaust etc, but I would not expect to see over 20 degrees timing in columns 11 and above. Also the ignition drops off sharply above 7500 rpm, whereas it should be almost flat down the rev range with a supercharger. Both ignition and fuel tables are very bumpy - look at the 40 degree high cam fuel table compared with the 30 and 50. Also look at the rapid change in fuel around 100 kPA. In short, the fuel & ignition tables need re-tuning.
external than. thats a shitty deal for you guys stuck with the ecus that cant run a wideband. make it very hard to play with yourself. even with an external , unless you could somehow datalog the external wideband , than you could look at 2 different windows when tuning , and match rpm with Kpro datalogs to get readings. unless you can and im about to learn something new , lol , which i love.
cranny wrote:external than. thats a shitty deal for you guys stuck with the ecus that cant run a wideband. make it very hard to play with yourself. even with an external , unless you could somehow datalog the external wideband , than you could look at 2 different windows when tuning , and match rpm with Kpro datalogs to get readings. unless you can and im about to learn something new , lol , which i love.
You can feed an aftermarket wideband into the ELD input and can datalog from that inside kmanager.