Hondata Sueing Dave Blundell?

Post by **Hondata** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:08 pm

The time frame was well over 1 day, during which many more copies of the software were downloaded.

The action was started last year - Dave did nothing to stop it and it is only now that he has decided to publicize everything.

cardinal811 · Post by **cardinal811** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:02 am

So being slow to reaction rather than being proactive on Dave's part, and then posting for help a year later cause your pushing though is whats brought the community to a screaming hault on your products? Dont you think it's about time to offer him a job for all that he's said and done for the community. But at this point with the pressure I doubt it will ever happen. I see both sides I really do, your a business that feels that they are/were being robbed of income for your hard work, and I see him as a legend for the underground community, how many people do you think that he has backing and admire him for the role he has played with all of us. Sometimes it's not about the money, and it was around christmas, look at it as a gift that many have enjoyed and friends ended up buying the real deal because of the tech that you have employed into it from word of mouth and seeing it in it's true form.

Just my $0.02

foamypirate · Post by **foamypirate** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:26 am

I really don't see how this holds lawsuit holds ANY water. This is right from PGMFI.org.

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Honda-Fanatic · Post by **Honda-Fanatic** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:11 pm

I wonder....

HONDATA is making problems about some software that has been posted on pgmfi.org because it was Hondata's intellectual property. But Hondata is using Honda intellectual property of the original ECU software and code of the Honda engine's. Did Hondata ever asked Honda if that was ok? Is Hondata paying Honda for the use of the intellectual property of Honda software and code?

I really do not understand the point of it. Somebody post some software what can use the Hondata products, but Hondata also uses the Honda software (and hacked it to so the settings can be modified). If the Hondata products are so good, why making such a big point over some software that can read (or edit) the Hondata bin file if Hondata themselves read of modify the original Honda software.

Besides of this whole discussion... i think that this action from Hondata is causing that Hondata is losing more customers (thus money) than this action provides by "protecting" the intellectual property. Don't forget the "underground" scene has an pretty big influence i guess which can turn (already happening in more countries outside the US) against Hondata.

artifex · Post by **artifex** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:25 pm

HONDATA is making problems about some software that has been posted on pgmfi.org because it was Hondata's intellectual property. But Hondata is using Honda intellectual property of the original ECU software and code of the Honda engine's. Did Hondata ever asked Honda if that was ok? Is Hondata paying Honda for the use of the intellectual property of Honda software and code?

That's what I asked earlier and my post was conveniently deleted.

I haven't been disrespectful in any manner and would appreciate an answer to the question rather than having my post deleted.

Post by **Hondata** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:07 pm

You cannot disclaim out of your responsibilites.

As to ownership of the code, do you get permission from Honda to change the wheels on your car? Our portions of the code are our property.

mar778c · Post by **mar778c** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:49 pm

Hondata wrote:As to ownership of the code, do you get permission from Honda to change the wheels on your car? Our portions of the code are our property.

You just contridicted yourself.

I can now list hondata along with intel and rambus.

I wonder why does honda not sue dart for IP infringement? Why does honda not sue you for IP infringement?

Take some advice, cancel the suit. You will lose, see rambus and intel.

Basically, without the competion offered by open source, you (hondata) would have basically done little to nothing in terms of innovation. In fact, you were pretty slow to release ITB tools, you got beat by Crome.

Make a better product, innovate.

artifex · Post by **artifex** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:49 pm

I appreciate the reply. There is one more question: What exactly did the software do? Did it read whatever information happened to be stored in the ECU?

There are a lot of people who can't really understand your position given the available documentation, and giving them an idea of the capabilities of said software would probably help your quickly-tarnishing image.

Right now it just seems that someone figured out how to crack the k-series ECU code, and introduce some competition in that area. It's hard for people to make informed opinions without all the information.

However, regardless of the capabilities or intent of the software, it really looks like you're pointing the cannon at a person who had no involvement with the alleged IP infringement, other than lacking the time to immediately do what you asked.

artifex · Post by **artifex** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:17 pm

Hondata wrote: As to ownership of the code, do you get permission from Honda to change the wheels on your car? Our portions of the code are our property.

So are you saying I do not need permission to modify the wheels on the car I own, but I need permission to modify the Hondata code in an ECU I own?

mar778c · Post by **mar778c** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:40 pm

artifex wrote:
Hondata wrote: As to ownership of the code, do you get permission from Honda to change the wheels on your car? Our portions of the code are our property.
So are you saying I do not need permission to modify the wheels on the car I own, but I need permission to modify the Hondata code in an ECU I own?

Yes, that is exactly what they are saying.

Also, I would greatly appreciate the mod of this forum not deleting posts. If you disagree then debate it that is the purpose of a forum.

Like I said previously, why does honda not sue you for using there code in your ecu modification?

Honda-Fanatic · Post by **Honda-Fanatic** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:59 pm

Hondata wrote:You cannot disclaim out of your responsibilites.

As to ownership of the code, do you get permission from Honda to change the wheels on your car? Our portions of the code are our property.

Still i find it very strange. So i can and are allowed to change the software and code from the car i bought with my money but i am not allowed to change the software of the Hondata product i also bought with my money? What is the difference in here? Can you explain that to me?

You disallow that your portion of the code is used because it is your property, but i understand that Honda never gave Hondata the permission to use their part of the code. That is measuring and judging with 2 sizes.

So basically Hondata is using Honda's part of the code without permission of the owner but that does not stop Hondata from making money out of it, but when someone else is using Hondata code it is disallowed... strange. Besides, Hondata is making lots of money by using the part of the code that is owned by Honda, but that is not a problem. When the underground scene (without making any money out of it) had some software there suddenly is a problem. Time for Honda to move in on this and sue Hondata for the use of their intellectual property?

And still a question. When Hondata is proceeding with this lawsuit, what is Hondata trying to reach here? It is not getting Hondata any more customers, this negative pr all around the world is doing Hondata at the long term (and short term?) more harm i think then Hondata thinks it will.

cardinal811 · Post by **cardinal811** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:20 am

I agree at this point with you honda-fanatic. Get more people to join in this discussion,....................VOICES NEED TO BE HEARD

DipDip · Post by **DipDip** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:30 am

Doug and Derek,

The software of S300, in the nonvolatile SRAM and in Smanager, is not 75 % a copy of the software Honda OBDI, and it is not violated Honda's intellectual property?

Post by **Hondata** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:33 am

You're trying to change the issue, which is that we do have legal rights to the rights to the code. I'm not going to get into how that works here. The download software was designed to steal our ip, simple as that. It had no legitimate use.

If you to ask questions and establish facts, then go ahead. Please do not distort the issues or make the action into something which it is not, or argue off topic.

When it comes down go it, blundell acknowledged that the software should be taken down, but by his actions did not want to. Furthsrmore, hs suggsstsd that it may happsn again and hs's do nothing in ths future as sell. This is what the action is about.

Post by **Hondata** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:25 am

People, as stated previously, posts which are abusive, hateful, insulting, or are just advancing you own justification for copying our software will be moderated.