Going Lean in Closed-Loop (S300 & LC1) - Resolved

peasly23 · Post by **peasly23** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:33 am

PROBLEM SOLVED - See post #9 below.

So, I have a Hondata S300 and an Innovate LC1 WB02 and am doing partial throttle street tuning right now in Open Loop.

THE DETAILS
The LC1 has a narrowband replacement wire that I have wired to my ECU.
The narrowband wire outputs 1 Volt = 14 AFR and 0 Volt = 15.4 AFR, where Stoich equals .51 Volts.
I have set the closed-loop target voltage to .51 Volts.
I have the wideband wire spliced to hooked up to both my ECU and the Guage it came with.

THE PROBLEM
In open-loop at idle and low load I can get the AF's damn near perfect. However, if I switch to closed loop, it leans out to like 15.5 to 16 AF. Also, in Smanager, when looking at the O2 voltage in the sensors window, the voltage hovers just below .9 volts and never really goes near or below .51 volts where it should.

WHY???? Please help.

Post by **Spunkster** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:43 am

The problem is the output voltage of the wideband. We do not recommend the Innovate widebands. Ww only recommend the PLX Devices widebands.

The proper narrowband signal should look like this:

peasly23 · Post by **peasly23** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:40 pm

I programmed my Narrowband output to look EXACTLY like that graph. Hence, I wouldn't think there would be a problem.

[edit] I contacted PLX and they gave me the following information. This graph is a ROUGH idea of the voltages it outputs.

The EXACT voltage output is as follows:
1V = 14.0 AFR
0V = 15.4 AFR

Thus making stoich = .50 volts.

GTMcoupe · Post by **GTMcoupe** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:53 pm

Had exact same problem, look for one of my posts, basically if you want to run in closed loop you need to tune these parts of the table whilst in closed loop, personally i found the best way to do this is to set your short term adjustments to Zero thereby stopping the ecu from trimming from the narrow band, tune the map, then once happy put these values back in

heres one of my posts sounds like what you are experiancing
http://www.hondata.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 4525#24525

Hope that helps

WEST

peasly23 · Post by **peasly23** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

I looked at your post.

spunkster wrote:You should be tuning with the car in closed loop

WTF??? Nowhere does it say that!! Do you think I should have to redo all my tuning in closed loop now? WTF!

What values are you referring to when you say this...

then once happy put these values back in

GTMcoupe · Post by **GTMcoupe** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:39 pm

peasly23 wrote:I looked at your post.
spunkster wrote:You should be tuning with the car in closed loop
WTF??? Nowhere does it say that!! Do you think I should have to redo all my tuning in closed loop now? WTF!

What values are you referring to when you say this...
then once happy put these values back in

You will have to retune all the columns effected by closed loop, for myself any columns up to 650 mbar [absolute] [upto column 5] with how i have mine setup, and i suggest to check the open loop areas, no harm in checking, and double checking your map hence why i run a plx r500 all the time now.

Set your minimum and maximum short term adjustments to zero for tunning, then once finished set the short term values back to your chosen/base map values, i used -15%[minimum] and 47%[maximum] as these are the values from the base maps supplied by hondata. and target voltage 0.49.

then worth checking whilst driving around your not getting huge short or long term trimming still, datalogging helps massively here.

WEST

peasly23 · Post by **peasly23** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:46 pm

Yeah, I retuned my low columns at closed-loop. Everything looks good now. I don't know if I want to put my S.Trim & L.Trim to such high values though, I mean, they are so close now, I'd hate to have the computer adjust them too far off.

It's running good now though. The only thing is when the engine is still cold my car runs pig rich so I gotta figure out ALL the fuel compensation crap. It's so hard, so many variables. Closed-loop, open-loop, high-temp, low-temp, high load, low load. I can't make heads or tails of what I should be changing first or by how much. Arrghhh!

Thanks for helping with the other thing btw.

peasly23 · Post by **peasly23** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:18 pm

I think I figured out the problem. After getting the datalogger that came with my LC1 FINALLY working, I found that there was a huge voltage offset problem of -.63V I have since fixed this and I think it is working much better now.

peasly23 · Post by **peasly23** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:04 pm

I THINK I FOUND THE REAL ANSWER to why I was getting such a huge voltage offset... I traced all my wires and found out that my ELD was OUTPUTTING 4.35V. What the crap??? Then I looked at Hondata's help file and found this little ditty...

Smanager Help File wrote:Note that if the ELD input (D10) is used then R136 and R138 (US ECUs) may need to be removed.

I contacted Phearable.net and they confirmed that they didn't remove whatever this is and that was causing my problem.

I have since changed my Wideband input from Pin D10 ELD, to my Analog Input 1 on Pin D12. Now everything matches up fine and NO MORE VOLTAGE OFFSET!!!! YAY!!!