if i were to pick up the stage 3 with a boost option
and the datalogger, i would only be able to use the base maps it comes with and not be able tune it myself...correct?
i also need the p28 ECU with the obd1-obd2 adapter harness right?
what else do i need to be able to tune the maps in the car with a laptop?
Please unconfuse me...
Please unconfuse me...
i know, i know...i ask too many questions
You are correct, a stage 3 system does not include the Hondata ROM editor. You'll need to have it tuned.
You didn't mention what car you have, but if you're putting the Hondata ECU in a car that originally had an OBD-II ECU, then you'll need an adapter harness to use a P28.
If you want to tune the maps in the car with a laptop, you'll need the ROM Editor software, datalogging, a wideband O2 meter, and some way to program EPROMs. A ROMulator will speed up tuning significantly, but is optional.
You didn't mention what car you have, but if you're putting the Hondata ECU in a car that originally had an OBD-II ECU, then you'll need an adapter harness to use a P28.
If you want to tune the maps in the car with a laptop, you'll need the ROM Editor software, datalogging, a wideband O2 meter, and some way to program EPROMs. A ROMulator will speed up tuning significantly, but is optional.
'99 EBP Si
S200 w/everything|12psi JRSC|Heatshield
AEM CAI|Kamikaze headers
Custom (quiet) 2.5" exhaust
Quaife LSD|JUN 9lb flywheel|ACT XTSS clutch
Eibach Pro-Kit/KYB AGX
Full polyurethane bushings/mounts
OZ 16x7 Superleggera + Sumi HTR Z II
S200 w/everything|12psi JRSC|Heatshield
AEM CAI|Kamikaze headers
Custom (quiet) 2.5" exhaust
Quaife LSD|JUN 9lb flywheel|ACT XTSS clutch
Eibach Pro-Kit/KYB AGX
Full polyurethane bushings/mounts
OZ 16x7 Superleggera + Sumi HTR Z II
I just want to point out my own frustration in trying to figure the Hondata systems out. I posted a similar question on what was needed to upgrade my stage 3b to be able to self tune. I was told "everything". That didn't help.TheNewbie wrote:what do i use to program an eprom??
any suggestions on the cheapest most effecient wide band...
also the wideband is just for my reference when tuning..it doesnt connect to the system...correct?
On the Hondata main pages you have info on what each component does, but I cannot find info on how they interact with each other or how to build a complete system.
To program the eprom, you will need the ROMeditor program and the Pocket Programmer [hardware], and possibly a connector cable. Cheapest and most efficient aren't always in the same boat as far as WB lambda meters go...I know that the Motec unit is supposed to be the most accurate, but it's also one of the most expensive. I am considering purchase of the FJO unit, as it is a few hundred dollars less. I've seen another unit that's even cheaper than the FJO, but I haven't heard anything on it's performance. I saw a slightly used Motec PLM go on ebay a few months ago for less than half the MSRP [it sold for about $500], so that might be another avenue for you. I'm not too sure on your last question, because I haven't first hand done any WB tuning, but from what I gather from reading the website [this is at least for the Motec PLM as that is the WB they use], the WB DOES interact with the Hondata unit. They recommend that you "canabilize a plug from a dead O2 sensor and wire it up permanently to your wide band." Then they go on to say how to start up the car and Hondata system and view the lambda reading coming from the sensor in ROMeditor.TheNewbie wrote:what do i use to program an eprom??
any suggestions on the cheapest most effecient wide band...
also the wideband is just for my reference when tuning..it doesnt connect to the system...correct?
The pocket programmer is a box that hooks up to a computer via the parallel port. You'll need a laptop to use the pocket programmer.
Most folks only use the wideband sensor for tuning, because the wideband sensor won't work with closed-loop operation. The ECU expects to see a standard narrow-band sensor so it can keep the air-fuel ratio close to 14.7:1 during part throttle driving.
As far as sensor durability, all oxygen sensors wear out eventually, but most are quite durable. The Techedge wideband kit, for example, uses a wideband sensor that's an OEM part for a Honda Civic VX (which has a lean-burn engine, and thus needs a wideband sensor). OEM Honda parts typically last quite a while.
Most folks only use the wideband sensor for tuning, because the wideband sensor won't work with closed-loop operation. The ECU expects to see a standard narrow-band sensor so it can keep the air-fuel ratio close to 14.7:1 during part throttle driving.
As far as sensor durability, all oxygen sensors wear out eventually, but most are quite durable. The Techedge wideband kit, for example, uses a wideband sensor that's an OEM part for a Honda Civic VX (which has a lean-burn engine, and thus needs a wideband sensor). OEM Honda parts typically last quite a while.
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mikebzfasheezy
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 1:05 pm
- Location: honolulu
hey andy, im wondering if you know anything about the ntk (ngk) L1H1 "wideband" sensor which is supposedly part number 36531-p07-003 and the people who sell them on ebay claim its the same as the FJO,, that its from a 92-95 civic vx. it appears to be a 5 wire sensor and im pretty sure obd-1 hondas use a 4 wire.. any idea where this extra wire goes or if its even compatible at all with B series ecus? (P30,72 particularly)
my understanding of the o2 sensor function was to give a very narrow range of voltage proportional to the air fuel ratio which the ecu uses to regulate mixture. i thought the stock o2 range was like a 1 volt window whereas a wideband was around 5ish? is there any truth to this or am i just totally off?
if i am anywhere near the mark,, would a stock ecu (non hondata) be able to even read the full voltage sweep of a wideband or would it be totally innefective? what about using it with the hondata S200?
thanks for your time and thanks to newbie for posting good questions,, i was lost in it all for quite a while myself.
my understanding of the o2 sensor function was to give a very narrow range of voltage proportional to the air fuel ratio which the ecu uses to regulate mixture. i thought the stock o2 range was like a 1 volt window whereas a wideband was around 5ish? is there any truth to this or am i just totally off?
if i am anywhere near the mark,, would a stock ecu (non hondata) be able to even read the full voltage sweep of a wideband or would it be totally innefective? what about using it with the hondata S200?
thanks for your time and thanks to newbie for posting good questions,, i was lost in it all for quite a while myself.
I currently am using a 92 Civic VX as my daily driver. The O2 sensor is a 5 wire O2 sensor, and it is a wide band sensor [because the VX uses a lean burn engine, which is great for gas mileage]. I'm not sure where this 5th wire goes, or if the sensor would be compatible with a non-VX ecu, but I have heard that you can use this sensor with an FJO unit [not 100% sure on that though, haven't tried it myself quite yet].
some guy on honda-tech sells a kit where you can use the VX wideband and run it with the car all the time.. it has a digital display that tells the a/f
like
12.9:1 , 14.5:1 etc
like
12.9:1 , 14.5:1 etc
www.hondaswap.com
94 del sol
94 del sol
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mikebzfasheezy
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 1:05 pm
- Location: honolulu
does anyone think this would be beneficial over using the standard heated 4 wire while tuning with hondata? would the p30 ecu recognize the "wider" range of the oxygen sensor or is the ecu also of a narrow band of oxygen sensor voltage? i understand that with a seperate monitor it wouldnt matter but avoiding the added expense of the digital display would be best if possible. my question is basically if using a wideband connected directly through the ecu, while in romeditor will the value for o2 sensor be of wider range or will it be limited by the ecu's "field of vision?"
anybody tried? moderator?
thanks guys
anybody tried? moderator?
thanks guys
OK, it's time to rein this in a bit before it gets out of hand...
A lambda or wideband oxygen sensor system consists of two components - the sensor itself (for example, the NTK L1H1) and a controller circuit (for example, the TechEdge DIY circuit board). The controller circuit is at least as critical as the sensor itself - in addition to translating the information from the sensor into an output voltage, it keeps the sensor calibrated as changes in temperature and pressure occur.
When you install a wideband system into a car with a Hondata ECU, you are essentially removing the narrowband oxygen sensor and replacing it with an integrated system, consisting of (wideband sensor + wideband sensor controller circuit). This integrated wideband system produces an output voltage that the Hondata ECU reads (via the stock O2 sensor wiring) and converts to a lambda (A/F ratio) value with a very wide range.
What this means is that the wideband sensor is useless without the appropriate controller circuitry. This controller circuitry is where *ALL* of the research and development is done in a wideband system; the sensors used in all the various wideband meters (Motec, FJO, TechEdge) work on the same principle, and are pretty much the same. When you buy one of those pricey wideband meters, you are mostly paying for that little control box. (In cars with lean burn engines, like DaX's Civic VX, the control circuitry to handle a wideband oxygen sensor is integrated into the ECU.)
So in a nutshell, forget about trying to splice in a L1H1 or other wideband sensor part number into your stock 4-wire O2 sensor wiring harness, as it will get you nowhere. A Hondata ECU does not provide any method to control, calibrate, or otherwise interface with a wideband oxygen sensor if you don't have the supporting control circuitry; it simply looks for voltage on a wire in the wiring harness, and converts that voltage to an A/F ratio based on a user-configurable table. It's up to the wideba
nd sensor control circuitry to read the sensor and produce the right voltage for the Hondata ECU to read.
Hope that clears things up. (And sorry to dash your hopes of a $250 wideband system...)
A lambda or wideband oxygen sensor system consists of two components - the sensor itself (for example, the NTK L1H1) and a controller circuit (for example, the TechEdge DIY circuit board). The controller circuit is at least as critical as the sensor itself - in addition to translating the information from the sensor into an output voltage, it keeps the sensor calibrated as changes in temperature and pressure occur.
When you install a wideband system into a car with a Hondata ECU, you are essentially removing the narrowband oxygen sensor and replacing it with an integrated system, consisting of (wideband sensor + wideband sensor controller circuit). This integrated wideband system produces an output voltage that the Hondata ECU reads (via the stock O2 sensor wiring) and converts to a lambda (A/F ratio) value with a very wide range.
What this means is that the wideband sensor is useless without the appropriate controller circuitry. This controller circuitry is where *ALL* of the research and development is done in a wideband system; the sensors used in all the various wideband meters (Motec, FJO, TechEdge) work on the same principle, and are pretty much the same. When you buy one of those pricey wideband meters, you are mostly paying for that little control box. (In cars with lean burn engines, like DaX's Civic VX, the control circuitry to handle a wideband oxygen sensor is integrated into the ECU.)
So in a nutshell, forget about trying to splice in a L1H1 or other wideband sensor part number into your stock 4-wire O2 sensor wiring harness, as it will get you nowhere. A Hondata ECU does not provide any method to control, calibrate, or otherwise interface with a wideband oxygen sensor if you don't have the supporting control circuitry; it simply looks for voltage on a wire in the wiring harness, and converts that voltage to an A/F ratio based on a user-configurable table. It's up to the wideba
nd sensor control circuitry to read the sensor and produce the right voltage for the Hondata ECU to read.
Hope that clears things up. (And sorry to dash your hopes of a $250 wideband system...)
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mikebzfasheezy
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 1:05 pm
- Location: honolulu
perfect andy
that answer was everything i could have hoped for and then some. thank you for taking the time to explain this to me,, and im not disappointed. i had a funny feeling that if people were spending a thousand on wideband setups that my idea wasnt going to cut it. so to follow the path of least resistance (and money) what ecu part number came from the civic vx in obd-1 configuration? since dax is running it im assuming it can control a dohc vtec engine with hondata?
youre the bomb andy
youre the bomb andy