leaning out and connectivity issue-help

[scttydb411]

rsx type s, 650cc inj, jrsc, meth inj w/ vari cool, 255 walbro, stock mapsensor.

cust came in w/ severe tip in issues. you could only creep in very, very slowly. cust said he paid for 3 bar map install, meth kit, 255 fuel pump and tuning.

when i get car no 3 bar, meth kit hadn't consumed any fluid at all. discovered meth kit on port pre charger w/ no boost signal. started tuning ind cam angles part throttle fueling could be tuned, but boost had to have a large % added just to get it anywhere near 12.5:1, but then would terribly lean out at 6.5k rpms. we installed a known 255 fuelpump assuming that maybe the pump hadn't been installed either since the 3 bar wasn't.

i ended up using one of the pretuned basemaps instead of starting from a stock map and building it for boost, inj, etc. instead of trying to tune the individual cam angles to start i went ahead and just did some pulls to see if it was still doing the same thing. still had to add more than necessary % of fuel and leaning out at 6.5k rpm again.

the other problem is loss of real time and repeated reconnectivity by reinstalling usb driver.

unless i'm totally missing something i think it's losing fuel pressure under boost, but there is no fuel pressure gauge installed and not a simple way to install one like on 6th gen and older.

datalog is attached. the dyno afr actually showed even leaner so i don't totally trust the built in wideband.

also attached the modified map.

any help, insight, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. help me out here.

thanks in advance.

[Razathorn]

rsx type s, 650cc inj, jrsc, meth inj w/ vari cool, 255 walbro, stock mapsensor.

cust came in w/ severe tip in issues. you could only creep in very, very slowly. cust said he paid for 3 bar map install, meth kit, 255 fuel pump and tuning.

when i get car no 3 bar, meth kit hadn't consumed any fluid at all. discovered meth kit on port pre charger w/ no boost signal. started tuning ind cam angles part throttle fueling could be tuned, but boost had to have a large % added just to get it anywhere near 12.5:1, but then would terribly lean out at 6.5k rpms. we installed a known 255 fuelpump assuming that maybe the pump hadn't been installed either since the 3 bar wasn't.

i ended up using one of the pretuned basemaps instead of starting from a stock map and building it for boost, inj, etc. instead of trying to tune the individual cam angles to start i went ahead and just did some pulls to see if it was still doing the same thing. still had to add more than necessary % of fuel and leaning out at 6.5k rpm again.

the other problem is loss of real time and repeated reconnectivity by reinstalling usb driver.

unless i'm totally missing something i think it's losing fuel pressure under boost, but there is no fuel pressure gauge installed and not a simple way to install one like on 6th gen and older.

datalog is attached. the dyno afr actually showed even leaner so i don't totally trust the built in wideband.

also attached the modified map.

any help, insight, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. help me out here.

thanks in advance.

First off, datalog with only windows 3 and 4 (sensors and display) open and you will get a much higher frame rate on your datalogs. Also, note that it's a fairly common thing to read leaner at the tail than where the oem wideband usually gets mounted -- I wouldn't discount the oem sensor you have without getting a test read from the other wideband in the same location.

At first glance, something really pops out at me -- that car should not be producing 9.3 pounds of boost right before vtec or hitting 9 pounds of boost at 7k with just the 9psi pulley in my opinion. I assume it's a 9psi pulley given the use of the stock map sensor? Are you trying to run the 11psi pulley or perhaps does this car have the k24 tsx crank pulley?

Anyway -- It certianly does look like it's losing fuel pressure... but having tried the pump, have you tried swapping for a known good set of 650cc injectors? Perhaps there's a bad injector and it's just one cylinder running lean? I'm guessing no missfire codes have been thrown. The short term trim is all over the place too in the small section of closed loop before the pulls.

I'm no professional tuner or mechanic, but if this was my car, my next step would be to test fuel pressure and or try another set of known good injectors. Some shops do shit injector installs and just twist wires together and tape them up -- might be worth a look at their wiring job as well.

Wayne

[scttydb411]

i think you're to something. i even thought they might have installed low impedance inj, but tested them to be 12+ohm. not exactly sure which pully cust has, but he said it was 10psi and that's probably why he wanted the 3 bar that he thought he had installed since he paid for it.

he has rc inj in it, but they must be older style because they aren't marked w/ the size on them like they do now so they could be smaller injectors, but they idle out correctly in open and closed loop 650cc basemap.

you mentioned tail pipe readings, but i've disabled obd2 (second o2, etc and mounted the dyno wideband in the second o2 port he has in his testpipe (...). now i know even though you disable closed loop you still have to have the primary o2 installed on the k-series, but does removing the secondary screw things up if obd2 has been disabled?

i'm still suspecting fuel pressure or bad inj as well. how are folks installing fuel pressure gauges on the returnless systems since regulator, filter, etc are all in the back and the fuel feed is a snaplock connector and not a threaded setup? are they just pulling the dampener from the rail and tapping it there?

don't pay too much attention to the overall tune of this map since i just loaded the rsxjrsc650cc10psi basemap and just did some wot pulls to see if it was still leaning out.

[scttydb411]

also the only knock detected was probably false knock detected when vtec locks in.

thanks for the suggestion regarding fewer windows open. i usually try to just have sensor and table open, but after getting so frustrated w/ this setup i probably left too many open because i kept looking over settings trying to see if i was leaving something simple out.

[Razathorn]

you mentioned tail pipe readings, but i've disabled obd2 (second o2, etc and mounted the dyno wideband in the second o2 port he has in his testpipe (...). now i know even though you disable closed loop you still have to have the primary o2 installed on the k-series, but does removing the secondary screw things up if obd2 has been disabled?

If you disable closed loop, the primary oxygen sensor isn't even used as I understand it. Without closed loop, the afr readings would do nothing for the ecu. I'm fairly certian the secondary o2 sensor can be removed without throwing any CELs if odbII is disabled.

[scttydb411]

the primary still reads and needs to be in for the datalogging, but i would figure it wouldn't matter for the secondary.

sounds like someone else was having similar issues and converted to a return fuel system and cured issue, but i'm sure most of these setups are still using the returnless system successfully.

[Razathorn]

The stock fuel pump can do up to around 300whp. I have a walbro in mine, but I don't really need it. Some people have got away with much more than 300whp from the stock pump. You don't need return system for any standard s/c install on the rsx. Even the crazy ones really don't need one. We're not seeing boost levels high enough to counter the walbro pump with decent sized injectors. You should be fine with a walbro 255 and the stock fuel system.

Wayne

[scttydb411]

started thinking maybe he was losing voltage during the pull since anytime we've tried to do any work on the car after sitting more than a day the batt was dead, but looking at the logs voltage isn't falling below 13.6, but it does fall a little from 14.0 to 13.6. anyone think this little bit of volt loss maybe causing the leaning out?

i'm also suspecting possible stuck inj at this point.

[Razathorn]

started thinking maybe he was losing voltage during the pull since anytime we've tried to do any work on the car after sitting more than a day the batt was dead, but looking at the logs voltage isn't falling below 13.6, but it does fall a little from 14.0 to 13.6. anyone think this little bit of volt loss maybe causing the leaning out?

i'm also suspecting possible stuck inj at this point.

I don't think that would cause it.

[scttydb411]

still needing suggestions as to connecting a fuel press gauge. figuring the issue could be clogged fuel filter, line, or bad inj.

was in the process of tuning a 700+whp ek hatch and it started leaning out similarly. luckily it had a gauge on it to confirm my suspicion of dropping pressure. cause-cust was only using line/fitting screen discs at the tank and rail. they clogged quickly. replace rear screen w/ large inline filter and problem fixed.

i just need a suggestion as to connecting a gauge on this RSX. can the rail dampener be removed and gauge installed there? sorry if this sounds noobish, but i'm used to the luxury of being able to install it on the filter in the ek and older civics.

[scttydb411]

finally got back around to working on it again after getting new injectors.

new rc 750cc inj in and on the 650cc map you would think it would be running richer. wrong!! decided to just make a couple pulls to check and see if it leans out up top, but now it's running leaner even after tipping in. this is leading us to failing pressure.

new pump, new inj (larger), and still the issue, but just as bad or worse now.

i really need a suggestion on getting a fuel pressure gauge on this thing from someone that has one installed. where do you tap it? can the dampener be removed and a gauge installed there?

any other suggestions would be appreciated as we and the cust would like to get his car back.

[boredfast]

i dont see why that wouldnt work, post up the thread size once you find out what it is!