Just got my s300 running with no errors or anything, with a new fuel system (rail, injectors, regulator, pump, filter). I also have added an AEM wideband gauge, wide band o2.
I have a couple of issues that I'm having. I think with the ECU and software maybe, but also my tune itself. The car started immediately with whatever basemap is on the ECU. I upload my basemap to it, and I can't tell if it is actually applying to the ECU. Sometimes it shows the like, loading bar, and looks like something happened, and sometimes I click it and nothing really happens in the program. Regardless, if I go into smanager and try to download the tune from the ECU it is always completely different than the tune I upload to it. I tried erasing the ECU and uploading my tune, but again if I download from the ECU its the same tune it always is, and not the one I am uploading. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or if I am stuck on this when it's not an issue.
My real problem is that the car runs and idles fine, sounds fine for the most part, but the AEM gauge and s300 say my car is running at like 18:1 AFR at idle, 17.5, etc. Really high. The gauge usually doesn't even show a number because it's maxed out. Not sure if the sensor is reading wrong somehow, or if the car is actually running that lean, or if I have an exhaust leak before the sensor. I don't think I have an exhaust leak, but its possible. Unrelated to the s300 program itself, but I have noticed that sometimes my fuel pressure gauge on my fuel rail goes crazy, and I don't know what that's about either, so I might be just having weird fuel pressure issues and the injectors aren't doing too hot with that.
new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
If you go to the s300 button at the top of the screen, then click on the calibration storage tab, do you have the box checked to automatically store calibration after uploading to the s300?
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
If I need to set that manually, then I do not. I will check this option.Spunkster wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:42 am If you go to the s300 button at the top of the screen, then click on the calibration storage tab, do you have the box checked to automatically store calibration after uploading to the s300?
I did check this morning though and my calibration was saved on the s300, so after erasing it it does look like it uploaded my calibration. Still have the same issues with idling, maybe worse now. Car starts, runs good for a couple of seconds, then just falls on its face and dies. I have added the calibration and the datalog to this post. As far as I can tell I am in fact getting steady fuel pressure. The fuel pressure drops around the time the car stalls out, but it looks like the car starts stalling before the fuel pressure drops. I have not set base timing yet, but I cannot get the car running long enough to try to.
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Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
Additional info: The more I look at it and mess with it, the more it does seem like it's all related to some sort of fuel pressure drop issue. Not sure if its the pump itself, or what. It's an AEM fuel pump, 320 lph I think. I also have larger wiring running to the pump, not factory wire. It bypasses the main relay. Since the pump starts I'm thinking it might be a grounding issue with the wires, but haven't fully gotten there yet.
I ended up adding an H22a stock basemap and changing a few settings and the engine idled even better and even (briefly) got some reasonable AF ratio readings.
Will report back after troubleshooting fuel pump and wiring. Thanks.
Also, yes, I did have that option checked in the smanager software under the s300 tab.
I ended up adding an H22a stock basemap and changing a few settings and the engine idled even better and even (briefly) got some reasonable AF ratio readings.
Will report back after troubleshooting fuel pump and wiring. Thanks.
Also, yes, I did have that option checked in the smanager software under the s300 tab.
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
Reporting back, my initial problems were indeed fuel pump related. My brand new AEM pump was bad right out of the box, I guess, but not bad enough to completely lock up, just bad enough to barely send enough fuel to start the car. I had a hard time troubleshooting this one because the pump kept working when I'd look at it closely, and stop working when I started checking another part of my fuel system.
After replacing the pump the car idles pretty steadily, and runs continuously.
Now my issue is still fluctuations in the A/F ratio that I can't quite figure out how to sort out in the smanager software, and I'm not entirely sure even have anything to do with my tune. The idle hunts up and down (just a little bit), and I'm thinking it might just be a small vacuum leak somewhere. Would anything in my datalog help me identify this as the culprit?
After replacing the pump the car idles pretty steadily, and runs continuously.
Now my issue is still fluctuations in the A/F ratio that I can't quite figure out how to sort out in the smanager software, and I'm not entirely sure even have anything to do with my tune. The idle hunts up and down (just a little bit), and I'm thinking it might just be a small vacuum leak somewhere. Would anything in my datalog help me identify this as the culprit?
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
Could be that you need to adjust the idle control in the calibration, or it could be a vacuum leak. Have you set the idle with the idle control valve disconnected?
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
I actually just found the tutorial on that in the instructions and that is going to be the next thing I do, along with double check for vacuum leaks. Then I'm going to verify my base timing again, but I'm pretty sure it's right. Thanks for the help! At least now I know I'm looking at the right things.
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
How far is your idle swinging up and down? How far is the AF fluctuating up and down? Also - make sure you aren't concerned with these things until the car is at operating temperature.
If you end up with a bad idle oscillation, you can zoom in and look closely at the datalog graphs and see which output changes first, causing the others (like RPM, etc) to follow. That can sometimes give you a clue as to where to focus your efforts.
If you end up with a bad idle oscillation, you can zoom in and look closely at the datalog graphs and see which output changes first, causing the others (like RPM, etc) to follow. That can sometimes give you a clue as to where to focus your efforts.
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
The idle is fairly consistent. It will stay for the most part between 830-870. Occasionally it dips a bit more, or raises a bit more. Now here my inexperience comes in, but I noticed the timing would change in time with the rev drops, and the afr changing. The AFR is a lot more inconsistent than I think is normal? When I see videos of people using wideband o2s the afr seems pretty steady at idle. Mine swings from 13.8 to 17+. It stays around 14.7 somewhat, maybe up to 15 something. But it does swing around quite a bit. When I looked back at the graph, I noticed the only thing it really showed changing was the timing.
The first thing I did was trying to set the base idle according to the guide, and I was able to for the most part. The engine would run at 450, but even at 450 rpm it wouldn't stay super steady at that speed. It would dip and raise a bit like it does at regular idle. I'm pretty freaking sure I don't have a vacuum leak, and if I did I would think it would have more of an impact on idle than a fairly regular dip 20-40 rpm. I also noticed that I distinctly have an rpm dip when any sort of electronic thing in my car kicks on. If the door locks trigger, it dips, if a light comes on, it dips, fans come on, it really dips probably 150 rpm.
So I went into the software to see if I could adjust the timing, and of course I can, but even with the idle dipping it doesn't really seem to leave the one cell, so changing it doesn't seem like it would do much.
Does this sound like it might be a problem with my distributor? Or possibly my alternator for some reason? I notice voltage drops of maybe a third of a volt at the fuse box, but they coincide with the rpm dips, they don't happen before them. Battery voltage is stable at 14v. Not sure how much things like fuel injector dead times and stuff would impact this, I put in the best info I could find online, but my spec sheet I got from the store that I got them from doesn't list that info I just searched it up.
The first thing I did was trying to set the base idle according to the guide, and I was able to for the most part. The engine would run at 450, but even at 450 rpm it wouldn't stay super steady at that speed. It would dip and raise a bit like it does at regular idle. I'm pretty freaking sure I don't have a vacuum leak, and if I did I would think it would have more of an impact on idle than a fairly regular dip 20-40 rpm. I also noticed that I distinctly have an rpm dip when any sort of electronic thing in my car kicks on. If the door locks trigger, it dips, if a light comes on, it dips, fans come on, it really dips probably 150 rpm.
So I went into the software to see if I could adjust the timing, and of course I can, but even with the idle dipping it doesn't really seem to leave the one cell, so changing it doesn't seem like it would do much.
Does this sound like it might be a problem with my distributor? Or possibly my alternator for some reason? I notice voltage drops of maybe a third of a volt at the fuse box, but they coincide with the rpm dips, they don't happen before them. Battery voltage is stable at 14v. Not sure how much things like fuel injector dead times and stuff would impact this, I put in the best info I could find online, but my spec sheet I got from the store that I got them from doesn't list that info I just searched it up.
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Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
A +/- 20 RPM fluctuation in idle seems pretty solid to me. Your idle stability may improve some over time as the ECU "learns" the engine. Anytime you remove power from the ECU (pulling the fuse, disconnecting the battery), it will lose what it has learned and have to re-learn.
I recommend changing your Closed Loop rate of change settings to the following (thanks to user TTR for these). These will speed up your ECU's fuel response to changes in what the wideband senses.
Slow: 5 - 5 - 4 - 3
Fast, Rich to Lean: 99 - 99 - 99 - 99
Fast, Lean to Rich: 99 - 99 - 99 - 99
Adding electrical loads puts a physical strain on the alternator, thus the slight dip in RPM as electrical load increases. This is totally normal, and while you may not have noticed it before, it was likely happening. I think disabling the ELD may smooth out idle a tiny amount by keeping the alternator always in high output mode. Not 100% sure on that though.
In short...I think you're fretting over nothing.
One other thing I saw - do you intentionally not have your fan come on until 199F? Seems a little high...
I recommend changing your Closed Loop rate of change settings to the following (thanks to user TTR for these). These will speed up your ECU's fuel response to changes in what the wideband senses.
Slow: 5 - 5 - 4 - 3
Fast, Rich to Lean: 99 - 99 - 99 - 99
Fast, Lean to Rich: 99 - 99 - 99 - 99
Adding electrical loads puts a physical strain on the alternator, thus the slight dip in RPM as electrical load increases. This is totally normal, and while you may not have noticed it before, it was likely happening. I think disabling the ELD may smooth out idle a tiny amount by keeping the alternator always in high output mode. Not 100% sure on that though.
In short...I think you're fretting over nothing.
One other thing I saw - do you intentionally not have your fan come on until 199F? Seems a little high...
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
No, that's not intentional, well, I mean it sort of was? I was trying to match the original fan switch temp, and I saw that was the default set in smanager and figured that was probably good because the number didn't turn red until 200 c lol. What do you recommend I use?
And I was fretting about the alternator because a friend of mine kept telling me that was the issue, for some reason. This is actually the first few times the car has actually run at all, and I've had so many issues with it over the last decade trying to get it running. Guess it's hard for me to believe I actually did something right!
Really appreciate the help and reassurance, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some obvious thing. I drove the car today actually, and like you said it does seem like the idle evens out. Just does weird stuff sometimes, but I just gotta get it tuned probably. Drove pretty good, but did cut out at like 5500 rpms or something, but I didn't have my vss plugged in, so I'm hoping that's what that issue is.
And I was fretting about the alternator because a friend of mine kept telling me that was the issue, for some reason. This is actually the first few times the car has actually run at all, and I've had so many issues with it over the last decade trying to get it running. Guess it's hard for me to believe I actually did something right!
Really appreciate the help and reassurance, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some obvious thing. I drove the car today actually, and like you said it does seem like the idle evens out. Just does weird stuff sometimes, but I just gotta get it tuned probably. Drove pretty good, but did cut out at like 5500 rpms or something, but I didn't have my vss plugged in, so I'm hoping that's what that issue is.
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
Before my most recent setup change I had my fan come on at 183F and not turn off until over 91 mph (basically always on if temp is over 183F). The car would cruise around 188F - 192F, so the thermostat was always open (it opens at 180F). I'm a D-series guy though, so not 100% sure if it translates the same to H-series.
Yes, get it tuned and enjoy it. Good luck.
Yes, get it tuned and enjoy it. Good luck.
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
So I'm still having weird issues, and I can't really figure out what is wrong, or what I am doing wrong.
I've tried adjusting the fuel table in both closed loop and open loop. I've watched a few tutorials, the thing shows how much estimated fuel change it needs, I adjust it. It will say some wild amount, like 30% more fuel. I add it. I clear the thing out and let it repopulate, and it still says 25 or 30 percent more fuel. The AFR doesn't really seem to change when I change it. Or it does at first, and then goes rich/lean again which ever one. Whenever I watch a tutorial, I notice that both their AFR gauge, and usually the number in hondata, is much more stable than my gauge.
This leads me to believe something else is an issue. I don't know what issue there would be with my fuel system, other than maybe one of the injectors somehow. The ECT doesn't appear to fluctuate to change AFR, the IAT seems to be functioning fine. MAP looks good, not sure what it would look like if it wasn't though if I'm being honest. TPS is calibrated and operating fine. I've tried to set the base idle as recommended but I have had some issues getting it to stick. The first time I did it, it worked fine. Then the idle started acting a little funny again, I tried it again, and had mixed success, sometimes the engine would die without the IACV, sometimes it wouldn't. Not sure if that indicates an issue, or is a symptom.
I'm not sure which one of these is the thing that happens first, but the revs either go up or down slightly (but very audibly), the timing changes briefly, the AF will basically sweep to full lean or full rich (usually lean at idle), and then it will sort of go back to where it should be and still idle lean, but not like fully. While doing this it is between probably 830-890 RPM, and running overall very smooth, other than the dips and catch ups.
The alternator did end up being bad, by the way. But replacing it hasn't really improved my ability to tune my engine.
I've tried adjusting the fuel table in both closed loop and open loop. I've watched a few tutorials, the thing shows how much estimated fuel change it needs, I adjust it. It will say some wild amount, like 30% more fuel. I add it. I clear the thing out and let it repopulate, and it still says 25 or 30 percent more fuel. The AFR doesn't really seem to change when I change it. Or it does at first, and then goes rich/lean again which ever one. Whenever I watch a tutorial, I notice that both their AFR gauge, and usually the number in hondata, is much more stable than my gauge.
This leads me to believe something else is an issue. I don't know what issue there would be with my fuel system, other than maybe one of the injectors somehow. The ECT doesn't appear to fluctuate to change AFR, the IAT seems to be functioning fine. MAP looks good, not sure what it would look like if it wasn't though if I'm being honest. TPS is calibrated and operating fine. I've tried to set the base idle as recommended but I have had some issues getting it to stick. The first time I did it, it worked fine. Then the idle started acting a little funny again, I tried it again, and had mixed success, sometimes the engine would die without the IACV, sometimes it wouldn't. Not sure if that indicates an issue, or is a symptom.
I'm not sure which one of these is the thing that happens first, but the revs either go up or down slightly (but very audibly), the timing changes briefly, the AF will basically sweep to full lean or full rich (usually lean at idle), and then it will sort of go back to where it should be and still idle lean, but not like fully. While doing this it is between probably 830-890 RPM, and running overall very smooth, other than the dips and catch ups.
The alternator did end up being bad, by the way. But replacing it hasn't really improved my ability to tune my engine.
Re: new to s300, first basemap runs fully lean
Are you still only looking at what it's doing at idle, or are you looking at other loads / RPMs? When you're making changes, are you in open loop or closed loop?
When you make those fuel changes, what is happening to your long term and short term fuel trims?
Try running in open loop. De-power the ECU for 15 seconds to erase any long term fuel trims stored in there, and set the allowable max and min long term fuel adjustments to zero (Parameters > Closed Loop tab). This should prevent the ECU from trying to correct any changes you make, and you'll be starting with your LT fuel trim at zero. Once you get everything dialed in in open loop, then you can switch to closed loop.
Which brand/style fuel injectors are you using? If you're using the older Lucas style injectors...I always had idle issues with those. I'd recommend upgrading to a quality/name brand Bosch EV14 style injector.
When you make those fuel changes, what is happening to your long term and short term fuel trims?
Try running in open loop. De-power the ECU for 15 seconds to erase any long term fuel trims stored in there, and set the allowable max and min long term fuel adjustments to zero (Parameters > Closed Loop tab). This should prevent the ECU from trying to correct any changes you make, and you'll be starting with your LT fuel trim at zero. Once you get everything dialed in in open loop, then you can switch to closed loop.
Which brand/style fuel injectors are you using? If you're using the older Lucas style injectors...I always had idle issues with those. I'd recommend upgrading to a quality/name brand Bosch EV14 style injector.