Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?

[MauiSI]

Hey! And sounds good thanks for clarifying! Stoked it seems to work pretty good!

Awesome! Here's the datalog for this last revision. I'm liking that vtec. Makes the car sound nice!

https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... A?e=5Vb8fu

Thanks again!!

[EFICU]

Yeah unfortunately it might be time to explore the possibility of false knock. All the knock is back in cylinder 2, and in a large quantities. I'm trying to think of what could be causing the false knock on a setup like yours. Something like a loose bolt or some type of rattle, not sure though obviously. Let me look through it some more, and I might have you try a completely different calibration to make sure we cover any variables. We've pulled a lot of timing from that area and it still shows knock, but I hate making a judgement call on stuff like this.

[MauiSI]

I do have something that makes a sound when I drive on the driver's side wheel well. I'll try to get a video. So sound can cause that?

[MauiSI]

Also, I did do datalogs when the car was stock before tuning and there was no knocks on any of those datalogs. I wonder what it is?

[EFICU]

So you datalogged before you added the header and all the performance parts? Or you had all your parts installed and didn't have any knock on the stock tune?

[MauiSI]

I datalogged on the stock tune with all the performance parts on my car. I didn't do any 3rd WOT pull but just normal driving to pickup my kids from school. Here's that one if it helps any. - https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... Q?e=USujAR

Should I hold off on driving the car for now? Not a problem to drive the teggy around for a bit ;)

Thanks again man!

[EFICU]

Yeah in that datalog you're not cruising at 60-62 in 6th gear like where we are getting knock. Most of the driving here is on and off throttle in lower gears. Go ahead and put the factory settings calibration in it, and make a datalog where you're doing that 6th gear cruise at 60-62 like you've been doing. Then we can see if it shows knock and determine where to go from here.

[MauiSI]

I see. Sounds good. I made this one with the factory tune from the Flashpro. Should I do a different process to go back to factory? And here's that datalog. Looks like there is some. Thanks for all the help!

https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... Q?e=X92fvJ

[EFICU]

Yeah it's interesting, in that one you have some knock all over and a little bit in the same area. It's all sort of strange, let me look over all of it and see if I can find something weird somewhere. Being that it's cylinder 2, which is the most sensitive, makes it even more complicated.

[MauiSI]

Thanks. I won drive the car for now. Let me know if I should do any more data logs. Thanks!

[MauiSI]

Hey, any update? Also, is it ok to drive the car or should I hold off for now? Thoughts? Thanks!

[EFICU]

Not yet. I think what we might try is a speed density tune and see how it acts. The hybrid works very well with the stock intake box, but I might have you try a speed density calibration to compare with each other. I'll try to get it sorted for you tonight so we can get back on it.

[EFICU]

Okay let's give this one a try. I went ahead and converted you over to a speed density calibration and transferred over your stuff. I went ahead and left all the ignition back to original so we can see how the knock acts back at square one. Take this one for a drive when you can, and let me know how the car feels overall compared to the other calibrations. It will take some tweaking to dial in the part throttle fuel, but we'll see how it goes and mostly check for knock. So shoot for your normal datalog time and driving style, then we'll see how it looks and see where to go from here.

MauiSI.SD.Rev10 (Blended)(Vtec4600).fpcal

[MauiSI]

Sounds good. What's a speed density tune?

And sounds good. I'll get this revision on the car and go for a drive and let you know how it feels compared to the others. Do I need to do any 3rd WOT pulls or just go for a normal drive?

Also had a question. Is there a "dangerous" threshold with engine knock? I guess what I am asking, is it normal for an engine to have knocks and is there a number or range that is considered dangerous?

Thanks again!!

[EFICU]

Speed density means the fueling is controlled from the reading provided by the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor instead of the MAF sensor. From the factory, the MAF sensor sends a reading to the ECU which makes decisions on fuel delivery. When you tune it speed density, the ECU uses manifold pressure data from the MAP sensor to make fuel adjustments instead of the MAF sensor. This is something you do especially when you add a big tube intake like the Hybrid Racing or Skunk2, with those intakes the MAF sensor can no longer provide a good reading because the housing the MAF sensor sits it no longer provides proper airflow through the sensor. Your original tune we built, we refer to it as a Hybrid calibration where we use the MAF sensor for part throttle fueling, then at a certain manifold pressure for WOT, it uses data from the MAP tables to provide fuel to the engine. So the hybrid name refers to using both strategies at different points in the driving, part throttle and WOT.

If you're curious what happens to the MAF sensor on a speed density tune, it essentially becomes an intake air temp sensor. So when Hondata says don't alter or remove the MAF, it's because the MAF is still used for an intake air temp sensor to make compensations in the future. Guys can swap the MAF for an actual air temp sensor, but in your case the MAF stays and we use it as an IAT sensor.

As to why we are trying a MAP or speed density tune, sometimes they can provide a different environment in how the engine is controlled and it might stop knock from happening where we had it before. The way your knock was registering and not registering at very different ignition values is tough to chase as to why one calibration does and one doesn't. So I thought we would try to change things up and see how it acts with the speed density tune and go from there. My goal is to always provide you guys with the best product I can. When things don't go as hoped, I take it a little personal so I want to find the best path for you possible.

Dangerous knock is a little tricky. From a personal standpoint, I am never happy until I can get you guys to zero knock because I feel that is my responsibility. I don't take it lightly that you guys trust me with your cars, so I always treat them as if they are mine and I always ask myself "would I do this to my car". Hondata has a lot of experience with these cars obviously, and they say that a few random knocks on any given drive is no big deal. The main thing is that the knock count isn't racking up like a slot machine, if you know what I mean. If you're driving it and you can watch the knock count rise quickly, then something isn't right. Especially if it's the same area over and over, then that means that area is sensitive and needs ignition reduction (to start with). I look at knock in aggregate, my thought is you guys are keeping these cars for many years so the few knock I can give you while we work together means you should have less knock in aggregate over the years. Granted an NA K20 would need some irresponsible tuning to really cause some damage, we want to be wise about it and make sure we don't have an area that is causing an issue all the time. Which yours is right now, that 60-62mph range in 6th gear is causing a lot of knock on a consistent basis which is why we need to address it.

My goal with you guys is to get you knock free while we're working together. Once we see a couple datalogs that are knock free and we are both happy, then in the future if you datalog for fun and see a knock or two, we know there isn't anything to worry about. And since I don't ask for money from you guys, my goal is to get it safe and so you can have fun with it. There are some cases where expectations can't be met because I just have to get them knock free in my head or I don't feel comfortable. Some tuners might tune for certain ignition because they see a lot of cars handle it, but I go car by car on everything I do.