2020 Civic EX Tune adjustments?

[Tasaddar12]

Ok. Idk what other apps will unzip .7z files I think winrar might? I used .7z since it compresses the data a lot more than .zip

[EFICU]

Either that, or trim the datalogs to be in a 20 minute range. And try to trim it so it shows the most areas of knock. Then you can post them here. If you don't know how to trim them, let me know and I can show you.

[Tasaddar12]

Alright. I will try to trim em and provide them zipped if I can to have more data in the log. Think I can configure the zip compression to compress more. Will get back to you later today.

[Tasaddar12]

Cant compress with zip. Even using highest compression settings wont meet the 10 MB for here. So I shrunk the datalog. Found out its a issue with large datalogs can not compress on Windows.

[EFICU]

Gotcha. Yeah trimming them might be the best bet, but whatever you did for this one works.

So I remember you mentioning your concerns over fuel trims, I would recommend turning off your long term fuel trims while you're scaling the MAF. That might give you a more direct data pool without long term data impacted that. Your trims are plenty close to turn them off while you're playing with everything. I don't see the trims as being too bad, just addressing your concern from a few posts ago. It could be an issue fuel compensations too. It looks like the ambient temperature is pretty cool where you are. I see the IAT1 at 48*F and the IAT2 reading around 41*F on average. So it's not warm at all where you are, granted the time of year too.

For ignition, car you only making ignition reduction per cylinder? I see that you have adjustment to each cylinder individually. You haven't made any adjustments to ignition tables? I don't see any drastic changes in those tables, which is again why I ask. All your knock is running around in fifth gear too. So that is where the engine sees a lot of load and can be prone to knock, especially with less than max octane.

Anyways, let me know what you've done with ignition tables and then we can try some things. All the knock is happening in a couple of roughly 8 cells, so global changes don't appear to be needed, we just need to focus on that one area.

[Tasaddar12]

Hey. I havent tuned anything else because I am very new to all of this. I have read up on it all and such but just because I understand what something might do doesnt mean I actually know what is needed to be done for tuning. I modified each cylinder since I noticed cylinder 2 gets the most knock. I was pushing 50+ knocks in a one way trip to work before swapping octane and doing cylinder modification.

Yes it is fairly cold right now. less than 40 out average. closer to 30 or even 20.

Anyway. It is running a base map for +3 psi. I tuned for my CAI. I also modified the ignition for each cylinder for knock. This is as far as I have gone.

Any advice for tuning the trims would be great from someone who is actually experienced in tuning.

[EFICU]

Gotcha. Yeah you don't want to trim cylinder by cylinder unless you have to. Usually when you have one cylinder that is more sensitive than the others. For now we'll leave it like you have it so we're comparing apples to apples. Then once it becomes knock free, we'll return those trims back to 0 and retest for the final package.

How warm does it get where you are? The big thing is to watch for knock when it gets warm. That's where ignition compensation for IATs will help you get the best of both worlds.

So for this one, I scaled the MAF just a little bit, and turned off the long term trims. I don't really know how much better we can get the MAF scaling, it's already pretty good and within 5% for the majority of the scale. Pretty much anything single digit is pretty good. Once we've got the MAF scale worked out, then we will want to watch for intake temp compensations when the weather warms up. For now though, I think out main focus would be the knock and getting it happy on 89 octane. Then you can play with compensations for different intake temps.

Take this one for a spin when you can and see how it looks. We'll see how it looks and if it becomes knock free now. You only had 6 or so on the drive, so we're not chasing a major issue which is good. Again, it looks like 5th gear cruising is your culprit, from 60-70mph. Well you're a CVT, so you know what I mean, but that 60-70mph range is where you want to test different load ranges with your acceleration.

2020-EX+3-CVT-KN_CAI-89OCTANE.Rev02.fpcal

[Tasaddar12]

I tuned with that file and datalogged. But I am getting a lot more knocks in the same problem cylinder. Cylinder 2 has always produced the most knocks hence why I have most retard on that cylinder. Will post to and from work datalogs tomorrow after work. Should help find a pattern.

[EFICU]

Yeah this one showed knock in the 35-40mph range which is a different area of the table from the previous datalog you posted. I only saw 5 knock in this one, so I'm not sure if that is what you mean by seeing more knock or you are seeing something in other datalogs. Anyways I made a couple adjustments to the MAF scale and ignition. Give this one a drive and see how it looks. If it doesn't get better then we'll just have you go back to your original file.

2020-EX+3-CVT-KN_CAI-89OCTANE.Rev03.fpcal

[Tasaddar12]

Also could you explain what you did and why? like zeroing the long term trims and such.

[Tasaddar12]

Did a drive on new calibration.

[EFICU]

The long term fuel trims are there for keeping the fuel trims inline over the long term. So, if for instance your short term fuel trims are holding steady at say +10-12% lean for an extended period of time, the long term trims will gradually rise to bring the short term trims closer to 0. For tuning specifically, having them off allows you to get a little more data on the short term trims without the long term trims coming in and skewing data. Which might be why you were saying you had the short trims close, but then they would change. If the long term trims are at 10%, then you scale the MAF a little better those long term trims might take a while to come back to 0% and leave you with richer short trim data. Basically we only turned them off to see only the short term trim activity to better scale the MAF, then turn them back on once the MAF was scaled. Similar to how you tune GM cars and other platforms. The long trims may not skew the data for scaling the MAF, it's just a good idea to take off any compensations so you get a 1:1 view of the data.

As far as ignition, you can only adjust tables based on an algorithm on your car, sadly there is no direct ignition table like on older platforms. So the algorithm you just have to tweak the tables until the knock is gone. By retarding ignition by cylinder, you have to be careful of EGTs from a post I read a while back from Hondata. They don't recommend (if I remember it correctly) to retard ignition by cylinder without having an EGT reading from the cylinder. You only retarded a degree or two so it's no big deal, you just wouldn't want to retard the ignition say 5-10* in different cylinders. The ideal goal is to remove the knock without having to make individual cylinder adjustments. They are only there to stop outlying issues or to fine tune cylinders if you have the proper equipment to read each cylinder, but you were proactively trying to stop the knock so that is good on your part. Say if you have o2 sensors on each cylinder of a header, then you could see if one cylinder is leaner/richer than others and add or subject fuel for that cylinder. Ignition adjustments on these boosted generations are a little harder to adjust since there is no direct ignition table. The algorithm method makes things a little more complicated as there are multipliers and different factors causing the delivered ignition.

Looking at the datalog it looks pretty good, we only had one knock at part throttle and the other one was at wide open throttle. All of your original knock seems to be gone, these were both in new areas so I made some small adjustments to the ignition table. I went back to your original MAF scale as it hasn't seemed to get any better, which you also had it pretty good anyways, and I turned long term trims back on for you. Seems like we're on the right track, see what you think and give this one a try if you want.

2020-EX+3-CVT-KN_CAI-89OCTANE.Rev04.fpcal

[Tasaddar12]

Noticed there feels like less power to it. Also didnt fix the "Knocking" actually seems worse. Was raining a little and roads were wet.

[EFICU]

Gotcha, yeah then go ahead and go back to your original calibration and see how it goes. Then continue to tweak on it like you were. I think you were on the right track with everything, I just wanted to see if the knock could be removed in the tables. When you have time, try a tank of 93 and see how the knock goes. If the knock goes away with 93 at least you know it's octane based and then you can work on it that way. Sorry I couldn't make it better for you.

[Tasaddar12]

Strange. Since last time being here I tried a few other tunes. I normally kept low Knock Control but this time I am getting knock control going up to 80% even when not really on the gas. But yet from my datalogs this only happens when coming home from work. I am confused. Would have figured going to and from work would result in similar datalogs. Not something so drastic.