Looking for some guidance on a tune

[fijiblue1]

Was wondering if any one on here can help with a tune. Just got Flashpro and need some guidance and assistance if possible.

2008 FA5 Civic SI
Modified stock airbox with K&N drop in filter with Mishimoto Intake tube
J35 TB, ported IM to match, coolant bypass, thermal IMG and TBG and Mugen SI exhaust.

Currently flashed with Mucter Stock tune

Looking at my datalog, Corrected AF ratio seems on the richer side, averaging about 12.3 and dip below 12 at around 5k rpm.
Should I be concern? My understanding is I should be in the upper 12s, ~12.7 to be ideal.
As for knock count, I'm getting quite a bit, seems to be on the high abnormal side in cylinder #4 and only in #4. This worries me.
How do I go about correcting this? Any suggestion how I can go about making this tune ideal for my setup?
Also, I was noticing on other's datalog, my mph seems lower than others at the same given rpm and gear. At 3rd gear, 6k rpm, they're doing about 60mph WOT and at 8-8.2k, they're at 80-82mph where i'm 2-3mph less. I assume I'm losing power compared to them.

Attached is my datalog

Thanks in advance.

[EFICU]

Was wondering if any one on here can help with a tune. Just got Flashpro and need some guidance and assistance if possible.

2008 FA5 Civic SI
Modified stock airbox with K&N drop in filter with Mishimoto Intake tube
J35 TB, ported IM to match, coolant bypass, thermal IMG and TBG and Mugen SI exhaust.

Currently flashed with Mucter Stock tune

Looking at my datalog, Corrected AF ratio seems on the richer side, averaging about 12.3 and dip below 12 at around 5k rpm.
Should I be concern? My understanding is I should be in the upper 12s, ~12.7 to be ideal.
As for knock count, I'm getting quite a bit, seems to be on the high abnormal side in cylinder #4 and only in #4. This worries me.
How do I go about correcting this? Any suggestion how I can go about making this tune ideal for my setup?
Also, I was noticing on other's datalog, my mph seems lower than others at the same given rpm and gear. At 3rd gear, 6k rpm, they're doing about 60mph WOT and at 8-8.2k, they're at 80-82mph where i'm 2-3mph less. I assume I'm losing power compared to them.

Attached is my datalog

Thanks in advance.

As far as your AFR, yeah you would want to shoot for 12.8-13.1 or so. The stock corrected sensor is a little off from what a wideband shows, but still very close. So shoot for the 12.8-13.1 using the stock corrected sensor as your data source.

For using Mucter's tune, that calibration is race calibration that really doesn't need to be used anymore and Hondata doesn't recommend race calibration anymore. If you want to stick with it you can, but transitioning to a standard file based on your mods would yield better results and your fuel gauge won't be acting weird anymore.

The knock concern, you would want to start by reducing the ignition where you see the knock and go from there. It could be an issue in one cylinder, or it could be that one cylinder is more sensitive to the amount of ignition than the others. So start with reducing the ignition where the knock is happening to try to remove it that way. If it doesn't go away after reducing the ignition say 2-5*, then it could be a mechanical issue or false knock.

For the MPH issue at a certain RPM, more HP doesn't mean your car will be going faster at say 6K rpm on WOT. More HP allows the engine and car to accelerate faster, not go faster at a certain RPM. The speed per RPM is determined by gear ratio, not hp. Say a 500hp Si cruising on the highway at 4000 rpm in fourth gear isn't going to be going faster than a stock one at same gear and RPM. If you're seeing less MPH, then it's just a speedo compensation that needs to be made if you are concerned about it. Verifying with a speedo app on your smartphone would help you verify any discrepancies in that.

If you want some help with it let me know. Let me know your level of commitment to the Mucter file and willingness to transition to a non race calibration. Also give us some info on the modified airbox, and what diameter the Mishimoto pipe is? That would help to determine whether you would be better suited for a Hybrid calibration or speed density. If you have any questions too, let me know.

[fijiblue1]

First off... thank you for taking the time to respond.. much appreciate it.

As far as your AFR, yeah you would want to shoot for 12.8-13.1 or so. The stock corrected sensor is a little off from what a wideband shows, but still very close. So shoot for the 12.8-13.1 using the stock corrected sensor as your data source.

What's the easiest way to do this? Would i click the datalog graph at the point where i want to adjust the fuel?

For using Mucter's tune, that calibration is race calibration that really doesn't need to be used anymore and Hondata doesn't recommend race calibration anymore. If you want to stick with it you can, but transitioning to a standard file based on your mods would yield better results and your fuel gauge won't be acting weird anymore.

When you say race calibration do you mean a map tune vs maf tune? Any reasons it's not recommended to use Mucter tune? After some research, I was under the impression it was a safe and closest to the best tune for a stock setup. Some were saying the standard flashpro calibration was a hit and miss


The knock concern, you would want to start by reducing the ignition where you see the knock and go from there. It could be an issue in one cylinder, or it could be that one cylinder is more sensitive to the amount of ignition than the others. So start with reducing the ignition where the knock is happening to try to remove it that way. If it doesn't go away after reducing the ignition say 2-5*, then it could be a mechanical issue or false knock.

Could it also be the injector itself? when I switch out the IM, I may have pulled it out a angle and possible causing damage? It just so happens to be cylinder #4, same as the injector. As regards to reducing the ignition, not sure how to go about that, need to do some research. Is that under the Knock ignition limit low/high? how do you correct it just for the affected cylinder #4?


For the MPH issue at a certain RPM, more HP doesn't mean your car will be going faster at say 6K rpm on WOT. More HP allows the engine and car to accelerate faster, not go faster at a certain RPM. The speed per RPM is determined by gear ratio, not hp. Say a 500hp Si cruising on the highway at 4000 rpm in fourth gear isn't going to be going faster than a stock one at same gear and RPM. If you're seeing less MPH, then it's just a speedo compensation that needs to be made if you are concerned about it. Verifying with a speedo app on your smartphone would help you verify any discrepancies in that.

I see, makes sense.


If you want some help with it let me know. Let me know your level of commitment to the Mucter file and willingness to transition to a non race calibration. Also give us some info on the modified airbox, and what diameter the Mishimoto pipe is? That would help to determine whether you would be better suited for a Hybrid calibration or speed density. If you have any questions too, let me know.

Any additional help would be greatly appreciated. This is pretty new to me. I actually had the FP for over a year now. Was too intimidated to install thinking i will mess it up. lol. But after finally going ahead with it, I realized it wasn't painful at all. haha. My confidence grew but still worry i would mess it up. I'm not completely committed to the Mucter tune. I'm open to modifying it or to a new tune. With this tune, I noticed the throttle was pretty sensitive on the pedal from 3K to 5K, almost jerky. Going into corner felt uneasy compare to the stock. Regarding the mods, the stock box is shaved and sanded down on the inside. I have yet to delete the lower resonator box. The Mishimoto tube is same as the HPS, it's 2.5" to 2.75" tube. I had to stretch the 2.5" side to fit the J35 TB.

[EFICU]

To dial WOT fuel, you need to trim the third gear pull from the datalog and save it, then reopen it so that the data is only from the WOT pull. Then in the fuel tables it will give you recommendation for how much fuel to remove and or add.

Mucter's file is an old race calibration from Hondata. I don't know the exact specifics, but the race calibrations were able to trick or bypass some things in the ECU to get it do certain things years ago. Since then, Hondata has developed calibrations that no longer need to do that. The race calibration is most commonly known for causing the fuel gauge to read improperly and the oil life to say 100% all the time. With a standard calibration, you get an OEM type experience where the oil life reminds you when to change the oil and the fuel gauge works properly. The "race" calibration doesn't mean it's a file tuned for racing, just their way of noting a standard calibration file to a "race" calibration that bypasses things to function a certain way. I can't comment on the consensus that file is the best for a stock setup. Your datalog is only a little over a minute long, so hard to say. If someone wants to get theirs going it would be fine, but the cam angle map and ignition map are the same as a Hondata base calibration.

The knock could be a number of things, but the first thing you want to do is address the ignition and see how it goes. What work did you do to your injectors, or are you referring to removing it to port match? To remove timing, you would want to go into the ignition table itself, find where the knock is occurring, and reduce it by 2* then retest. If you still have the same amount of knock and it all looks very similar, remove 2* more and retest. If you've pulled a significant amount of ignition like that and the knock hasn't changed, then you most likely have a mechanical problem. But don't mess with the ignition limits tables and all that, you would want to focus on the ignition tables themselves.

I see, yeah the throttle sensitivity could be a number of things. Mucter does make substantial changes to the throttle pedal map, making it much more direct and connected than the stock calibration. But it shouldn't be touchy.

So I went ahead and put together a file for you to start on. This is a non race calibration, so your fuel gauge will function right and all that. It's my basemap for a setup like yours. It runs off the MAF sensor for part throttle fueling since you still have the stock airbox and the Mishimoto tube. I also made some adjustments to the ignition map based on your knock from the other datalog. We will see how it goes, and see what you think. Let me know if it's touchy at all like Mucter's. It might take a revision or two to get things super close, but see how it feels compared to Mucter's. We might end up going speed density tuned, but the hybrid calibration should be good for your setup.

For datalogs, we need them to be 20-30 minutes in length with as much stop and go driving as possible. On the drive, we need one WOT pull in third gear from 2500-8600 to work on WOT fueling. If you want the rev limiter lower, just let me know. Let me know what you think on the drive. Don't get too aggressive with the drive on this first one, once I get some data back you can have a lot more fun in the next revision. I like to get some data and make any big adjustments before you have too much fun. It will be safe though, nothing you need to be concerned about, I just like to be responsible before sending you out to get aggressive with it.

Fijiblue1.Hybrid.Rev01 (Vtec4300).fpcal

[fijiblue1]

I see, good to know. That's pretty awesome for doing the calibration. I'll get some datalog with yours tomorrow. But here's some of the other datalog i had with the Mucter tune. The calibration is attached in the previous post. I have couple of datalog that was longer and the short datalog was done back to back. When you say ignition table, that would be the ignition low and ignition high? Yes, i was trying to take the injector out with the fuel rail attach for the porting. 1,2 and 3 came out at once but 4 with still halfway stuck and not completely out.

[EFICU]

I see. Unfortunately we can’t see individual cylinder AFR so it’s hard to say for sure. It could be lean causing the knock. But lets see how reducing the ignition goes and see what we get. If reducing the ignition doesn’t yield tangible results, then we can switch gears.

Were you running Mucters file before and after the injector issue? If so, knock before and after the manifold port would tell us something.

And yes on the ignition tables, high and low ignition, then each cam angle too. Don’t make global ignition changes, focus on which cam angle the knock is happening and adjust that table. Some cars are sensitive to ignition on one cam angle and not another, so playing with cam angle mapping might help too. My cam angle map in your is totally different from Mucter’s, so let’s see what we get in a datalog. As mentioned, I reduced timing in mine using your datalog.

Anyways, let me know when you take it for a drive. I’ll try to view the datalog and get you a revision back quickly. I’m going to be crazy busy for the next twelve days or so, but I’ll do what I can for you and we will see what we can do on the knock.

[fijiblue1]

The Mucter tune was after. It was the first and only time i've used the flashpro. Yeah, i saw the difference from yours and his. No worries, I completely understand. I'm on your time. I'm going to upload yours first and see how that goes before making changes on the Mucter tune.

[EFICU]

Sounds good. It’ll take a couple revisions to dial the fuel on mine, but it should be pretty close to start. The knock would be my main focus, that and the sensitive throttle you mention.

Just keep me in the loop. We’ll see how it goes.

[fijiblue1]

Just did 2 quick and easy run and drove around town. Looks like knock is down to 7 over 12mins on #4 and 2 on #1. As for the throttle it's less sensitive. Doesn't exactly have the same kick on the mid or upper high as before but i didn't go too aggressive. Attached is my datalog. I noticed my mph matches the rpm now, 6k 60mph, 8k 80mph, etc

[EFICU]

Yeah my main focus right now is the knock and fueling, the cam angle mapping we can work on once we get the important stuff sorted. I generally like to tune these by each cam angle, then blend everything, but I am strapped for time right now. As long as we can get rid of the knock, and get the fueling good, we can work on getting more power in a week or so. Right now I just want to get it safe so you can have some fun with it for right now.

But yeah, you're right about the knock so I think we're making progress. Take this one for a spin when you can and we will see how it looks. It's plenty close to have fun with in this next one, so feel free to have some fun with it and make whatever pulls you want. Keep doing at least the third gear pull from 2500-8600. Other than that, feel free to drive out however and shoot for 20-30 minutes in length.

Fijiblue1.Hybrid.Rev02 (Vtec4300).fpcal

[fijiblue1]

Gotcha. As always, appreciate your time. I'll try rev02 for the next few days to a week or so to give you a break. I'll post some datalog as necessary but no rush on your end.

[EFICU]

You’re all good, make and post a datalog tomorrow if you can, I just won’t be able to get to it until the evening is all. My days are packed, but I can get to them in the evening.

[fijiblue1]

Sounds good... looks like the knock is back again. I got 49 on #4 on a quick run. I'll do a proper run tomorrow evening.

[fijiblue1]

I was able to get about 25mins worth of dataloging.. looks like #4 is very high on the knocks

[EFICU]

Yeah that sucks it cam back. There very well may be an issue there based on what you say and what we see in the datalogs.

Let's try one more before we send you off to check for a mechanical issue when you have time. I made some slight WOT fuel adjustments to dial that, and I took 5-6* of ignition out where the knock is happening. It might feel like a dog in that area due to the reduced timing, so consider this a test run to check for knock basically. If the knock continues in a similar fashion, you will need to look into a mechanical problem in that cylinder. The good thing is the majority of it is happening in WOT, so you can drive it calmly while you find the issue. But give this one a drive when you can and we will see how it looks. All the fueling looks great, just that pesky knock in cyl 4.

Let me know how it goes.

Fijiblue1.Hybrid.Rev03 (Vtec4300)(IgnTest).fpcal