Knock from 5k-6k rpm

[9g_steve]

Desperate for help at this point!!!

I have a 2015 9th gen with a stock k24. Skunk 2 CAI and rear hasport motor mount.
I am getting knocks from 5500-6000rpm mostly from 3rd gear and above.
I have had this issue since last year when going through with an etune and have then had the car dyno tuned and i am still experiencing the same issue.

Including the current tune and a log from a good day where the knock was not as heavy

[EFICU]

Did you discuss this issue with either tuner? If so, what did they say?

[9g_steve]

So we have pulled timing out of the top end. Did seem to due the trick. Did a few pulls with only one knock. Although the the next day i had a 1,2,3 count at 5500 and then its been consistently knocking ever since. I am assuming IAT effected it.

[EFICU]

So both tuners had the same issue at the same RPM?

Was the tune in this datalog done with a wideband in the stream at all or in the tailpipe? The AFR is in the 11.80’s which is more for boosted setups, 12.8-13.0 is more for NA. Just curious why they tuned it so rich.

[9g_steve]

So both tuners had the same issue at the same RPM?

Was the tune in this datalog done with a wideband in the stream at all or in the tailpipe? The AFR is in the 11.80’s which is more for boosted setups, 12.8-13.0 is more for NA. Just curious why they tuned it so rich.

First tuner i was getting knocks right at vtc (4500). The dyno tune I had done was through the tailpipe. But after that when we were trying to figure out the knocks we street tuned it and pulled timing at the top end.
Wouid the rich fuel mixture cause this?

[EFICU]

Okay, I figured he must be using a wideband then for tuning for it to be that rich through the primary sensor reading. Hard to believe they are that much different, but it's possible. The richness should not cause the knock, if anything it would help reduce it. But if he tuned it for the wideband reading, we really don't know what the AFR is because he tuned it using the external wideband and we can't see that data.

Give this file I try when you can. Also, if possible, can you make a datalog with 20-30 minutes of normal driving and throw in your pulls to test for knock? I am curious about a few things in the tune and interested in seeing what your fuel trims are like at part throttle. Because all your fuel tables are the same for every cam angle, and your ignition tables are all the same for the low cam. So I'm curious to see how it's all acting, but the main thing is getting rid of the knock per your concern. So test this one out and see if you can get it to knock where you were having the problem.

steven andrews 9th gen (2) (IgnTest).fpcal

[9g_steve]

Okay, I figured he must be using a wideband then for tuning for it to be that rich through the primary sensor reading. Hard to believe they are that much different, but it's possible. The richness should not cause the knock, if anything it would help reduce it. But if he tuned it for the wideband reading, we really don't know what the AFR is because he tuned it using the external wideband and we can't see that data.

Give this file I try when you can. Also, if possible, can you make a datalog with 20-30 minutes of normal driving and throw in your pulls to test for knock? I am curious about a few things in the tune and interested in seeing what your fuel trims are like at part throttle. Because all your fuel tables are the same for every cam angle, and your ignition tables are all the same for the low cam. So I'm curious to see how it's all acting, but the main thing is getting rid of the knock per your concern. So test this one out and see if you can get it to knock where you were having the problem.

steven andrews 9th gen (2) (IgnTest).fpcal

First off I just wanna thank you for your help and support through this I was definitely not expecting what I just got in that log!
I GAVE YOU IT ALL in the log lmao.
I did get 3 knocks in the expected rev range but not nearly what I was getting before. The car felt great at full throttle.
The beginning of the log contains a lot of stop and go with some baby pulls along the way. I did hit the freeway to get longer gears (which is where the knocks occurred) and got that puppy moving.

(Add) - I also did log normal driving after the knocks occurred to analyze how the car behaved.

Thank you sincerely - Steve

[EFICU]

Glad to hear it Steve! I don't see a datalog attached though. Can you try to post it again so I can look it over and see what changes we need to make.

[9g_steve]

Glad to hear it Steve! I don't see a datalog attached though. Can you try to post it again so I can look it over and see what changes we need to make.

Sorry about that! Here it is!

[EFICU]

Okay, interesting, it's not as bad as I thought it might be at part throttle driving so that is good. It's actually just fine honestly.

Yeah the knock is in one of the two places where we had the other knock. And two of these knock were in 5th gear pulls, which is about as much stress as you can give these things. The other was in third gear. So I made some more adjustments at that RPM. I normally pull 2* of timing out of gears 5 and 6 anyways, but your tuners doesn't not have that in the file. That is something we can do to. Right now, just trying to build off the dyno tune you paid so much money for.

Give this one another test and we'll see how it looks. Feel free to do what you did and try to get it to knock. A couple knock is no big deal, but if we aim for 0 right now then you should be fine into the future. And if you do get a random one here and there I wouldn't worry. But we'll aim for 0 right now to remove your concerns.

Sorry for the terrible file naming scheme, just rolling with your original title. Haha.

steven andrews 9th gen (2) (IgnTestV2).fpcal

[9g_steve]

Okay, interesting, it's not as bad as I thought it might be at part throttle driving so that is good. It's actually just fine honestly.

Yeah the knock is in one of the two places where we had the other knock. And two of these knock were in 5th gear pulls, which is about as much stress as you can give these things. The other was in third gear. So I made some more adjustments at that RPM. I normally pull 2* of timing out of gears 5 and 6 anyways, but your tuners doesn't not have that in the file. That is something we can do to. Right now, just trying to build off the dyno tune you paid so much money for.

Give this one another test and we'll see how it looks. Feel free to do what you did and try to get it to knock. A couple knock is no big deal, but if we aim for 0 right now then you should be fine into the future. And if you do get a random one here and there I wouldn't worry. But we'll aim for 0 right now to remove your concerns.

Sorry for the terrible file naming scheme, just rolling with your original title. Haha.

steven andrews 9th gen (2) (IgnTestV2).fpcal

You are a god!!!
I did get one knock in that log but i am going to assume its phantom knock. Only thing i do notice sometimes when getting going from a stop ill see timing hop down about 10 degrees real quick and then jump right back up to where it was sometimes causing the car to hesitate. I had times in the past where it would do it so bad where i would chirp tires. No matter how slow i release the clutch it would do it. But other than that I am more than happy what you were able to do with the tune and thank you very much.

[EFICU]

No, I just listen to what the car wants and not what "I think it should do". Haha. I have heard that from a few guys now that their tuner said the car "should" do this and it has a knock issue like yours. All I can do is go by your datalogs and what we see, I don't tune based on what I think a car should do, I go by what the data shows.

Your ignition tables are all the same through each cam angle and have large variances from column to column. As the cursor passes through the tables while driving, it is hunting for the next cell to grab an ignition value to deliver to the engine. If those variances between cells are large, it will jump the ignition around quickly. The calibration also doesn't have temp compensations applied to the ignition table, so that could be part of it. What I tell guys now with issues like you mention, once you hit the datalog button on your FlashPro, start a timer on your phone as well. When you have an issue like you mention, make a note of the timestamp into the datalog and let me know. The datalogs can be difficult to look for an issue like that without knowing where in the datalog it happened. So, if you have the issue and look at your phone which says say 7:36 into the datalog, then let me know and I can study that portion of the datalog to help find the issue.

With that said, I have had a number of 9th gens have a similar issue over the last year or so. Only one guy had time to test some things and we got it ironed out on his. I don't know that you have the same issue, but we can check if you can get it to do it in a datalog.

Here is the next one. The knock you had in the last datalog was at part throttle, and could have been happened because the intake temps were 115* F and with no temp compensations present. I usually like to have temp compensations pull probably 2-3* ignition right there for the temps, but your calibration doesn't have compensations. Again, I am trying to make the most of the tune you had done. So I just pulled a bit of timing there for you. Give this one a drive and we'll see how it looks.

steven andrews 9th gen (2) (IgnTestV3).fpcal

[9g_steve]

Hey EFICU I apologize for the delayed response. I have been on the past tune you have sent me and did need to make a road trip with about 4 hours of driving with plenty of pulls and did not get a single knock. A/F seemed to be pretty consistent across the rpm range as well.

I was able to log the weird ignition timing when getting going from a stop when IAT are higher.

Logs are properly labelled.

Thank you again for all your help - Steve

[9g_steve]

No, I just listen to what the car wants and not what "I think it should do". Haha. I have heard that from a few guys now that their tuner said the car "should" do this and it has a knock issue like yours. All I can do is go by your datalogs and what we see, I don't tune based on what I think a car should do, I go by what the data shows.

Your ignition tables are all the same through each cam angle and have large variances from column to column. As the cursor passes through the tables while driving, it is hunting for the next cell to grab an ignition value to deliver to the engine. If those variances between cells are large, it will jump the ignition around quickly. The calibration also doesn't have temp compensations applied to the ignition table, so that could be part of it. What I tell guys now with issues like you mention, once you hit the datalog button on your FlashPro, start a timer on your phone as well. When you have an issue like you mention, make a note of the timestamp into the datalog and let me know. The datalogs can be difficult to look for an issue like that without knowing where in the datalog it happened. So, if you have the issue and look at your phone which says say 7:36 into the datalog, then let me know and I can study that portion of the datalog to help find the issue.

With that said, I have had a number of 9th gens have a similar issue over the last year or so. Only one guy had time to test some things and we got it ironed out on his. I don't know that you have the same issue, but we can check if you can get it to do it in a datalog.

Here is the next one. The knock you had in the last datalog was at part throttle, and could have been happened because the intake temps were 115* F and with no temp compensations present. I usually like to have temp compensations pull probably 2-3* ignition right there for the temps, but your calibration doesn't have compensations. Again, I am trying to make the most of the tune you had done. So I just pulled a bit of timing there for you. Give this one a drive and we'll see how it looks.

steven andrews 9th gen (2) (IgnTestV3).fpcal

^^^

[EFICU]

Hey EFICU I apologize for the delayed response. I have been on the past tune you have sent me and did need to make a road trip with about 4 hours of driving with plenty of pulls and did not get a single knock. A/F seemed to be pretty consistent across the rpm range as well.

I was able to log the weird ignition timing when getting going from a stop when IAT are higher.

Logs are properly labelled.

Thank you again for all your help - Steve

Glad to hear it went well. Yeah I didn't touch anything but a little ignition, so everything else is the way your tuner had it. As far as the weird ignition issue when it's hot, not really sure. There are a strategies in your tune that are a little unorthodox, so I don't now for sure what you're experiencing or why. If I had to guess, it's his knock ignition limit tables and intake compensation being applied to those instead of the tables, but I don't know. You might check with your tuner on that.

Other than that, glad it worked out for you!