Help with a tune for a 2008 Acura CSX Type S

[Moist]

Ah ok makes sense honestly if that is adjusted then I am down for that! Tbh I am not too knowledgeable on that basically just assumed it is what it is haha. But if it can be modified more then im down to test. Was wild haha I was so confused when it happened. When I get back home I will give it a nice drive and see. Im assuming these changes are on the Rev 17 Sports one. I will try OEM for the fun of it and do up the sports after haha

Thanks

[EFICU]

If it needs more adjustment I can make some more changes to the table. Both files have the changes to them, one just as the OEM pedal while the other is the sport pedal.

[Moist]

Hey so I went out for a drive for a while and honestly I feel like the changes to the sport pedal are a huge improvement. I have to drive it a bit more but it didn't seem so twitchy at the top end which is great. Felt a bit more predictable haha. You are right though it did feel weird using the OEM. I honestly didn't mind it but yeah the aggressiveness of the sports one is awesome. Though I am curious is the oem one designed to be more linear? I got the feeling of that when trying it. Otherwise yeah I will keep driving on the sports pedal map. Though I wouldn't mind for the Final final to have also the oem one just incase when im at the track or something haha.

Thanks

[EFICU]

That one looked great, no knock, and all fueling was great. We might be on the right track now with that last revisions. Let's do some more datalogging with this one and see how it looks.

The OEM pedal is very flat and they actual retard the throttle body opening from the actual value your foot pushes. So, say you are pushing the throttle pedal 40%, the throttle body blade only opens from 27% just off idle to 36% at redline, and varies in between based on RPM. Say you're running through the gears during normal driving at 40%, the throttle body is only opening about 30% at 4000 rpm. At that same point in the sport pedal, you're roughly at 41.2%. Then I taper it higher, so the higher in the rpms you go, the same value of throttle pedal opens the throttle body more. I try to keep it fairly OEM ish up to about 2500 rpms so coming off idle it's still nice and smooth, but once you go above that it begins to become more 1:1 to give you the feeling that you have a cable throttle, if that makes sense. From the factory, these cars have the clutch master with a bypass, and a throttle map that retards the opening so that it is easier to drive for people who aren't good at driving a manual trans. Which sucks for people like us that buy these cars for performance and know how to drive a manual, and who can't powershift into second gear because the clutch master won't allow it.

I have a base pedal map which was in your original files I sent you. Then we went to the sport, I never use the OEM pedal map unless someone has issues with the feel of the pedal maps for whatever reason. I never shove things down your guys throats, if something isn't right I am always willing to go another route. When it comes to e-tuning, what you guys feel in the car is the most important aspect. Granted AFR and knock isn't really up to debate, as those are always targeted for safety, but other things I always try to incorporate feedback, kind of like the issue you were feeling. Keep testing it though, it's in a really good spot now to where you can do whatever you want to see how it acts.

Here is the OEM pedal map below. Throttle pedal percentage is on the top row, left column is RPM. The values in the table are the actual throttle body movement. As you can see, the plate opening is heavily retarded in almost all the table which in my opinion causes a disconnected feeling. One question you might have is why not make it 1:1 throughout, that makes it very touchy off idle and part throttle from experience. For automatic Honda's, it's not so bad. With a manual though, it gets finicky off idle and part throttle.

OEM Pedal.JPG

[Moist]

Ok wow thats actually crazy didn't realize they cut it off that much. I can instantly feel the difference and now that I can see more of the data there looking around and on your graph I will probably just stick to the sports pedal as it makes more sense. To be honest I appreciate the changes you made to the new sports pedal one and I will just stick to that as I got a little sketched out when it was twitchy the other day. I do prefer that feeling your talking about and you are right it is a more enjoyable drive than the oem one haha. I have decided to stick to the sports pedal one as I feel you have fixed it I haven't had that feeling anymore and I hope it doesn't was crazy it felt like the car was confused if I was on the pedal or not.

Also I knew I wasn't crazy I had a feeling it was the clutch master limiting me on quick shifting to second haha. I dont hold the gas pedal while shifting but I grinded second a couple times during a quick shift and was like no way the clutch was in! More of a reason to upgrade it haha.


Thanks

[Moist]

Just out of curiosity but what sort of adjustments did you make to sort of prevent that issue anyway? just learning thats all haha

[EFICU]

Yeah I didn't really make any changes to the sport pedal in your other revision, I changed the WOT lambda high cam table. If you research open and closed loop operation, you'll see what I am referring to. But the WOT lambda table is where you tell the ECU that when the it sees WOT, that it needs to transition into open loop operation for fueling. When it goes into open loop for WOT, it utilizes the fuel values that we put into the fuel tables, which we tune as we go, so that when you go WOT it says I am using these values no matter what I see for AFR. There are a few reasons why it does this, but the main thing is so that it has values it goes by instead of trying to trim fuel plus or minus while going WOT. If you want more info on it, let me know and I can send you some links. What happened in the other revision was you were on the crossover line between rpm and throttle input that it was going in and and out of open loop operation, and that is the jerkiness you felt. It was going from commanding WOT fuel to commanding part throttle fuel basically. You just found an area of where it was caught in between from your throttle input and rpm is all. So I made some changes in that area to where it would continue to command WOT fueling. Basically shifted the crossover line to the left some so it would stay in open loop for your type of driving style. I might shift it over some more in a final revisions, but we will see.

The CMC in these cars are a real bummer for our community. When they first came out, we had to buy an EM1 (99-00 Civic Si) master from the dealer and then do a rod conversion inside from our stock CMC, then hope you adjusted it right. But with that you can shift into second gear with no issues, it's funny how well it worked. The bypass inside the stock CMC is not ideal for the way we drive these sometimes. A lot of guys have had good luck with the K-Tuned CMC and slave package they sell on their website. Some guys think the slave is part of the problem, and some guys don't, such as in life right, haha. When you do the K-Tuned package, it fixes both issues and then you can grab second without issue.

[Moist]

Id be down to see more info about this. Very interesting that it would do that. I found it did it more when I lifted off the throttle at high rpms. basically with my foot fully off which was sort of odd. It seems though after that change you did there it seems to have stopped it so I will have to take it on another drive haha. I will change my plugs tomorrow and grab a log for you. Also in your opinion whats better. This hybrid combo or the k tuned?

https://www.hybrid-racing.com/collectio ... -04-08-tsx

https://k-tuned.3dcartstores.com/K-Seri ... html#tab-1

[EFICU]

Id be down to see more info about this. Very interesting that it would do that. I found it did it more when I lifted off the throttle at high rpms. basically with my foot fully off which was sort of odd. It seems though after that change you did there it seems to have stopped it so I will have to take it on another drive haha. I will change my plugs tomorrow and grab a log for you. Also in your opinion whats better. This hybrid combo or the k tuned?

https://www.hybrid-racing.com/collectio ... -04-08-tsx

https://k-tuned.3dcartstores.com/K-Seri ... html#tab-1

Yeah when you lifted off the throttle the load drops, which then puts the load near where the crossover rpm is. I didn't touch the pedal map, so it has to be the WOT changes. It's the same problem with WOT map pressures. I try to set them high so that it won't command WOT unless it sees WOT, well if if it's a stock intake car the load is different and can cause it to kick out of WOT on a pull. I have since changed the pressures after having a couple guys experience it, though where yours did it is completely different. Same concept though, I saw in the datalog what you were talking about.

From what I understand the K-Tuned one is ready to install in the car. With the Hybrid one, you will have to disassemble your old CMC and swap the rod inside, then install that rod into your new one from Hybrid. Which can be a pain, plus you really have to make sure you get the rod adjusted properly or you can have some problems with clutch engagement pedal height. Look at steps 10-13 on the Hybrid's website and you'll see what I mean. The K-Tuned one doesn't require this, but double check. I had the Hybrid one back in the day, and my buddy has the K-Tuned one with no issues. No wrong way to go, just a matter of more work with the Hybrid one perhaps. You'll be happy either way, haha.

[Moist]

Makes sense its crazy all the different things you can encounter when you tune different cars hahah. Also cool I will take a bit longer look at them but sounds like K tuned would be easier if thats the case haha.

[Moist]

Hey I apologize I haven't got a datalog. I didn't feel so hot because we are getting some crazy smoke in my area haha so I didn't feel like going outside to breathe it to do spark plugs. I will hopefully be able to get it all tomorrow! Finally started to rain and hopefully it clears it out a bit haha.

thanks

[EFICU]

No problem. We're just playing with stuff at this point. Hope you feel better!

[Moist]

Finally got the spark plugs done. Car feels smoother now haha seems like the previous owner kept the originals. Anyway here is my next datalog. Car is feeling awesome tonight. Was a bit cooler tonight so I bet that helped alot with how much quicker it felt haha.

A stupid question but is there a way to disable launch control?

Thanks

[EFICU]

That's good. Overall it looks great. No knock, fueling looks good. Looks like a pretty cold night, or is this pretty normal for your area? Shows 45* F intake temps which is pretty cold, well for a west coast US guy, haha.

I bypassed launch control in this next one for you. That is pretty much the only change I made. We'll see how it looks on this next one. We'll see how it all looks in this next one.

Moist.SD.Rev18.1 (Vtec4300)(SportPedal).fpcal

[Moist]

Awesome thanks! Never was huge into launch control haha. Yeah it was cooler last night than usual. Was odd considering its been super hot this summer haha. Should I grab a datalog tonight or just wait till tomorrow?