TPS Ignition Retard Help!

thesilverbullet · Post by **thesilverbullet** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:02 pm

Read the help screen -

The amount of ignition retard from throttle tip in can be adjusted by gear. A value of -100% is minimum retard; a value of 0 of higher is more ignition retard.

Can you give pros and for the application of this? Give more detail of the settings.

RSX-CT · Post by **RSX-CT** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:25 pm

Also very interested in learning more about this feature!

portandpolish · Post by **portandpolish** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:18 pm

Anybody?? I also would like a quick tutorial if possible, Thanks in advance.

Post by **Hondata** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:56 am

There really isn't much more to say than what is in the help file. -100 is minimum retard; +100 is maximum retard unpon throttle tip in. Try different settings and see what works. Personally I find that -100% for all gears works the best.

thesilverbullet · Post by **thesilverbullet** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:40 pm

thank for the response

1. what are the values -100 to +100? percent right? what's the percent of - the timing value at whatever point it's reading from the ignition tables?

2. what defines throttle tip in (MAP or TPS and at what value(s) of tps or map is the timing adjusted , i.e. TPS=0-20%

OK so you like -100%, does that mean basically you get zero timing retard at throttle tip in (light throttle) and that's what i need to do to get rid of the mild skipping/mis-fire at light throttle?

so if i set to 100%, i get zero ignition adv at throttle tip in - like setting the ignition table to values of -100 at throttle tip in?

portandpolish · Post by **portandpolish** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:33 pm

I apologize for rehashing this, however the help file didn't really aid in explaining the throttle tip in. What is the throttle tip in ? Part throttle ? TPS values range from 0-100, how does this TPS retard IGN per gear. Does it retard IGN by the Value of the TPS? I'm sorry I'm having trouble grasping this concept.
If I have -20% in gear 2, Previous eg. States that -100% is minimum retard. Is it that @ part throttle I would be reducing IGN by 80% in all cam angle tables 0-50 in that particular gear (2)?
I really don't know what I'm saying here.
My understanding is we are working on a scale of -100% to +100% where 0 would be the middle ground? So, if -100 = min retard meaning it does not retard timing in my tables, then 0 would be the max retard, does it work in conjuction with the "Retard IGN timing by gear? then what does +100 do?

I AM Completely confused, Sorry Please Assist.

Post by **Hondata** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:43 am

There are no metrics on the tip in retard. -100% is the minimum amount of tip in retard, +100% is the maximum amount of tip in retard. The exact value for your application is found by testing different values, datalogging and seeing what works the best.

Throttle tip in retard occurs when the throttle is opened. The exact throttle position and opening rate required to retard the ignition varies by rpm, load, throttle position, throttle opeing rate, water temperature, air temperature - so there is no absolute throttle opening value and throttle opening rate I can give you where the retard will start. Likewise the amount of retard depends on the above factors as well, so there is no absolute amount of retard generated.

The tip in retard has nothing to do with the amount of ignition timing in the tables. The tip in retard is generated from the above conditions.

Tip in retard does not function at steady throttle.

portandpolish · Post by **portandpolish** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:07 pm

AHHH !!! That definately sheds a bit more light, Thanks!

Throttle tip in retard, works in conjunction with a whole heap of parameters IAT, ECT, speed of increasing TPS values, RPM ETC, as opposed to just working with the throttle postion sensor, and IGN maps only. Now in terms of datalogging for the best tip in retard, what should I be looking for? I've set all my tip in values to -100% as per your experience for now, however, I would like to experiment with these values, to see what changes do occur and of course would be most ideal for my particular situation? Just as a side note, I'm running stock K20a (R) injen cai, toda race header, 3" custom exhaust and IMG (hondata) in an EP3.

thesilverbullet · Post by **thesilverbullet** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:19 pm

Thanks HondataMan.

alright - i've played with the values -100 and +100.

at +100 i get sputter and i can't really tell any difference with -100, other than the on/off throttle seems jerky like with a race flywheel - not sure this from the -100 setting or just in my head?

so i'm not sure why this was even added to the software? i'm sure somebody thought it was a good feature to have? who requested this feature? and what were they trying to improve with it?

r@mon · Post by **r@mon** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:37 pm

Hondata wrote:There are no metrics on the tip in retard. -100% is the minimum amount of tip in retard, +100% is the maximum amount of tip in retard. The exact value for your application is found by testing different values, datalogging and seeing what works the best.

Throttle tip in retard occurs when the throttle is opened. The exact throttle position and opening rate required to retard the ignition varies by rpm, load, throttle position, throttle opeing rate, water temperature, air temperature - so there is no absolute throttle opening value and throttle opening rate I can give you where the retard will start. Likewise the amount of retard depends on the above factors as well, so there is no absolute amount of retard generated.

The tip in retard has nothing to do with the amount of ignition timing in the tables. The tip in retard is generated from the above conditions.

Tip in retard does not function at steady throttle.

im sorry but i dont understand what it is needed for. would the engine knock if this feature wasnt there?

PRJ3CTM4YH3M · Post by **PRJ3CTM4YH3M** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:40 am

is this meant to help compensate for lean spikes when initially applying addition throttle?

chunky · Post by **chunky** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:33 pm

thesilverbullet wrote:Thanks HondataMan.

alright - i've played with the values -100 and +100.

at +100 i get sputter and i can't really tell any difference with -100, other than the on/off throttle seems jerky like with a race flywheel - not sure this from the -100 setting or just in my head?

so i'm not sure why this was even added to the software? i'm sure somebody thought it was a good feature to have? who requested this feature? and what were they trying to improve with it?

I just recently started playing around with this. The preset on the map was -100 the upper gears and -50 or something for the lower gears, I forgot exactly. I changed everything to -100 and instantly realized better tip in response. The car was more jerky on part throttle stuff though. I went through & cleaned up my ignition maps so that there no unnecessary sudden transitions in ignition. Presto, everything was smooth again. The TPS retard was just masking a rough ignition map.

I find this feature to be excellent and it has made a pretty noticeable difference for any tip in situation (upshifts etc).

chunky · Post by **chunky** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:35 pm

PRJ3CTM4YH3M wrote:is this meant to help compensate for lean spikes when initially applying addition throttle?

that and to prevent knocks from too much ignition in a low rpm/high load situation. with a good ignition map you can set everything to -100 and not see any knocks.

chunky · Post by **chunky** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:48 pm

Hondata wrote:There are no metrics on the tip in retard. -100% is the minimum amount of tip in retard, +100% is the maximum amount of tip in retard. The exact value for your application is found by testing different values, datalogging and seeing what works the best.

Throttle tip in retard occurs when the throttle is opened. The exact throttle position and opening rate required to retard the ignition varies by rpm, load, throttle position, throttle opeing rate, water temperature, air temperature - so there is no absolute throttle opening value and throttle opening rate I can give you where the retard will start. Likewise the amount of retard depends on the above factors as well, so there is no absolute amount of retard generated.

The tip in retard has nothing to do with the amount of ignition timing in the tables. The tip in retard is generated from the above conditions.

Tip in retard does not function at steady throttle.

Correct me if i'm wrong: the tip in retard value (which is calculated dynamically) is subtracted from the ignition value in the tables to determine the actual ignition value during throttle tip in?

So the +/-100% adjustment in the TPS ignition retard is scaling the tip in retard value? If so, does -100% eliminate the tip in retard? My thinking is that if the tip in retard is calculated to 20deg, 0% would apply a 20deg retard to the value in the table, -100% would apply a 0deg retard to the table value and 100% would apply a 40 deg retard to the table value.

Is my logic correct on that?

thesilverbullet · Post by **thesilverbullet** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:31 pm

thanks for the info chucky - i did find the -100 settings to be a little jerky. so set them to like -20 and smoothed her out and eliminated the lean mis-fire at light throttle. but i will look at smoothing the timing tables to get back to a -100 setting, thanks again.