Just installed Kraftwerks and currently hitting 308whp @ 6 psi. Anyone have a FlashPro calibration that I can compare to what my local tuner did? Current setup as follows:
2008 Honda Civic Si
Kraftwerks Supercharger Kit (C30-94)
110mm pulley
Grams Performance 1000cc Fuel Injectors
Skunk2 Alpha Header
Skunk2 Exhaust (70mm)
DW300 Fuel Pump
Stock Camshafts
My goal is 400+ whp. If you have any thoughts on how I can get there, don't hesitate to say something.
Looking for Calibration Comparisons
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adrian.matticeallen
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Hi Adrian,
Are you concerned your tuner didn’t get everything out of the tune that he could have?
What octane fuel are you on?
What type of dyno was the 308whp measured?
Looking at a similar setup PFI Speed tuned on youtube they got 349 out of an 8th gen they tuned at 6 psi. Not sure what fuel they were on, but if you’re on 91 you will be limited. Do you have any datalogs you can post showing some wide open throttle pulls and driving?
More so than power, I would be curious if the tuner changes some settings so if you bang the rev limiter it takes the pressure off the Supercharger unit so it won’t break. If you want to post your calibration so we can look at it we might be able to tell how well it’s tuned. Or you can email it to me if you don’t want to put it put for the public to see.
Let me know.
Are you concerned your tuner didn’t get everything out of the tune that he could have?
What octane fuel are you on?
What type of dyno was the 308whp measured?
Looking at a similar setup PFI Speed tuned on youtube they got 349 out of an 8th gen they tuned at 6 psi. Not sure what fuel they were on, but if you’re on 91 you will be limited. Do you have any datalogs you can post showing some wide open throttle pulls and driving?
More so than power, I would be curious if the tuner changes some settings so if you bang the rev limiter it takes the pressure off the Supercharger unit so it won’t break. If you want to post your calibration so we can look at it we might be able to tell how well it’s tuned. Or you can email it to me if you don’t want to put it put for the public to see.
Let me know.
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adrian.matticeallen
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
That is is exactly what I'm concerned about. I felt 308 is extremely low for this kit. The car is still crazy fun to drive but it's rated at 380+. I was still expecting a minimum of 340whp based off similar builds.
But to answer your questions, I'm running 93 oct and they used a DynoJet. See below for my current calibration.
But to answer your questions, I'm running 93 oct and they used a DynoJet. See below for my current calibration.
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Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Do you have any datalogs with 20 minutes of driving or so? Hopefully something with some wide open throttle pulls. If not, can you make one this weekend maybe? 20-30 minutes of normal stop and go driving, then some wide open throttle (WOT) pulls in third gear from 2000-8600 so we can see the WOT fueling and ignition.
I don't see anything jumping out in the file. It seems for the most part to be functioning as it's supposed to. I don't see any of the usually issues I see with some tunes. If you have any datalogs, or can make one, that may tell a little more about it.
I don't see anything jumping out in the file. It seems for the most part to be functioning as it's supposed to. I don't see any of the usually issues I see with some tunes. If you have any datalogs, or can make one, that may tell a little more about it.
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adrian.matticeallen
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Sorry for the delay. Here's the datalog you requested. Any suggestions are very much appreciated. The tuner said I'm only hitting 6 psi but after looking at the datalog, looks like I'm hitting 8 psi. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Hi Adrian,adrian.matticeallen wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 1:36 pm Sorry for the delay. Here's the datalog you requested. Any suggestions are very much appreciated. The tuner said I'm only hitting 6 psi but after looking at the datalog, looks like I'm hitting 8 psi. Correct me if I'm wrong.
For starters, I would recommend not driving it too aggressive until we see if we can get the knock count down. There were over 2000 knocks in that one drive you made in this datalog. I need some time to look them over and see where they are all coming from. They are happening in part throttle driving as well as WOT pulls. There are some other things I want to look over, but it will take me some time to look at it. I'll try to get to it tonight. In the mean time though, take it easy on the driving as much as possible, that's a lot of knock, and if it's real knock it can cause a problem.
There are some other events where the fueling goes very lean, so again, take it easy for right now and stay away from WOT pulls.
Was the car tuned with wideband do you know, or did he use the factory O2 sensor to make the fueling adjustments?
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adrian.matticeallen
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
I had a bad feeling about the way the car was running, so I've been taking it easy and avoiding WOT. I'll continue to do so. I'm not sure if the car was tuned with wideband or factory O2 sensor for fuel adjustments, but I can ask the tuner. Once again, I appreciate your help.
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Going through it more and more, there are some things that seem out of the ordinary. Granted that your shop should know a lot more than I do, based on the knock and some other things, and your feedback, something just isn't right.
Do you know why he set vtec to 4900?
So I am going to leave the fueling alone for now since it does seem to be close. Although there are some areas that I am curious about, which I will research more. My Main concern is getting the knock out of it for now. I still feel like it has a lot of timing in it, but I want to see if it has any knock massaging the tables your tune already has. If not, we will scrap the ignition and go to something super conservative to get rid of the knock. That is the main concern at the moment. I took a fairly big swing at the ignition to start, but I still think it needs a lot more.
Take this one for a drive. Twenty minutes or so, throw in one WOT pull in third gear from 2000-8300rpms so we can see the WOT fueling. Just do one WOT pull until we get the knock sorted out. And don't hit the rev limiter, I haven't inserted the ignition values to protect the blower yet. So run it up to 8000 ish on the WOT pull. I also inserted my pedal map for you to make the throttle pedal feel a little more connected with the throttle body and some other little things. Well see how it looks.
I ran some of your pulls in this datalog through the Virtual Dyno. According to it the car is making pretty good power. Although the knock is concerning. Your pulls are the orange and green ones, overlayed on top of the highest bolt on 8th gen I have tuned. So it makes pretty good power, we need to find the reliability though for you and see how it goes.
Here is the next file. We'll see how it looks when you make a datalog.
Do you know why he set vtec to 4900?
So I am going to leave the fueling alone for now since it does seem to be close. Although there are some areas that I am curious about, which I will research more. My Main concern is getting the knock out of it for now. I still feel like it has a lot of timing in it, but I want to see if it has any knock massaging the tables your tune already has. If not, we will scrap the ignition and go to something super conservative to get rid of the knock. That is the main concern at the moment. I took a fairly big swing at the ignition to start, but I still think it needs a lot more.
Take this one for a drive. Twenty minutes or so, throw in one WOT pull in third gear from 2000-8300rpms so we can see the WOT fueling. Just do one WOT pull until we get the knock sorted out. And don't hit the rev limiter, I haven't inserted the ignition values to protect the blower yet. So run it up to 8000 ish on the WOT pull. I also inserted my pedal map for you to make the throttle pedal feel a little more connected with the throttle body and some other little things. Well see how it looks.
I ran some of your pulls in this datalog through the Virtual Dyno. According to it the car is making pretty good power. Although the knock is concerning. Your pulls are the orange and green ones, overlayed on top of the highest bolt on 8th gen I have tuned. So it makes pretty good power, we need to find the reliability though for you and see how it goes.
Here is the next file. We'll see how it looks when you make a datalog.
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adrian.matticeallen
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
I'll try this out sometime in the next couple of days and post another datalog.
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adrian.matticeallen
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Here's another datalog with your modified tune. Like you recommended, I only did 1 WOT about 8 minutes in. The only parameter I changed is the current fuel pressure and the injector opening time. What I input matches the Grams Performance 1000cc data sheet. Reason being is that with the original tune, I had issues with my car dying at idle. Didn't matter if I costed to 0 or downshifted all the way through. The tuner hasn't been able to figure it out either. I've taken it back 3 times already. But since I changed it, my car hasn't died at idle.
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Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Hi Adrian, yeah it looks like he has a lot of bandaids on the tune to for some reason. One thing I noticed in your original file was he has the fuel trims capped at like -6 and +6, meaning it can't add or subject anymore than 6% either direction. I put the trims back to normal, and now you can see how rich the car is running. At idle, your ECU is trying to remove 37% fuel alone. That could be part of the idle issue you mention. He has way too much fuel in it down low for some reason. It's like he tuned it for WOT fueling only.
I also noticed the fuel injector data was wrong, but I thought he had it tuned that way for some reason, and I didn't want to risk your fueling if it was done like that. Since you did it, we will continue to use your file then. Can you send me the revised file you used for this datalog so I can make changes to that?
Still has a ton of knock. I think we need to put the ignition to a really low value and see how it acts. If it is real knock we need to get rid of it and work our way up. There are a lot of issues I guess overall, we'll have to work on them as we go and see how it does. But right now it's extremely rich all over the idle and part throttle fueling. WOT fueling doesn't seem too bad, but that is the least of our worries right now.
Let me know on the file and I will look it over. I'll try to get something back to you tonight, depending on when you send me the file you uploaded with the injector and pressure changes.
I also noticed the fuel injector data was wrong, but I thought he had it tuned that way for some reason, and I didn't want to risk your fueling if it was done like that. Since you did it, we will continue to use your file then. Can you send me the revised file you used for this datalog so I can make changes to that?
Still has a ton of knock. I think we need to put the ignition to a really low value and see how it acts. If it is real knock we need to get rid of it and work our way up. There are a lot of issues I guess overall, we'll have to work on them as we go and see how it does. But right now it's extremely rich all over the idle and part throttle fueling. WOT fueling doesn't seem too bad, but that is the least of our worries right now.
Let me know on the file and I will look it over. I'll try to get something back to you tonight, depending on when you send me the file you uploaded with the injector and pressure changes.
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adrian.matticeallen
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Per request, this is the file I used for the datalog. Everything is the same as your original file you posted except for the fuel pressure and injector time opening that I changed.
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Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Okay so I went through a bunch of things in the file for us. I also went through some of the Kraftwerks videos from Evans Performance as well, the car he tuned only made 391whp at 13psi. If yours is only making 8-9psi, I don't see us getting to 380whp or even close. Do they make different pulley sizes and maybe you have the bigger one?
So in this next revision, I went ahead and pulled almost all the timing out of it to check for knock. It's only hace 10* in it at part throttle and 5* at WOT. I also set everything to stay on the 30* cam angle so we can focus on one set of tables at a time. I made some fueling adjustments at idle and some in part throttle driving, the WOT fueling I left alone but we will see how that goes. Right now the WOT fueling seems to be the only thing close, even that is a little suspect too, but it's close enough to work on. I am hoping the knock is gone in this next one, then we can focus on the fueling. Let me know how the idle is as well, I tried to make an educated guess on the idle fueling since he had it very rich at idle before.
I also lowered the rev limiter to 8200 to protect the blower. So let out right near there on your WOT pull.
So in this next revision, I went ahead and pulled almost all the timing out of it to check for knock. It's only hace 10* in it at part throttle and 5* at WOT. I also set everything to stay on the 30* cam angle so we can focus on one set of tables at a time. I made some fueling adjustments at idle and some in part throttle driving, the WOT fueling I left alone but we will see how that goes. Right now the WOT fueling seems to be the only thing close, even that is a little suspect too, but it's close enough to work on. I am hoping the knock is gone in this next one, then we can focus on the fueling. Let me know how the idle is as well, I tried to make an educated guess on the idle fueling since he had it very rich at idle before.
I also lowered the rev limiter to 8200 to protect the blower. So let out right near there on your WOT pull.
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adrian.matticeallen
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- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
Kraftwerks does not make a bigger pulley for the blower. What I have seen, are guys using a smaller blower pulley (usually 105mm vs the provided 110mm) in conjunction with a K24 crank pulley and a shorter belt. Everyone that I've seen run these pulleys has seen an increase in boost but lowered the redline to prevent too much overspin. I'll run this calibration soon, and see what we get.EFICU wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 8:52 pm Okay so I went through a bunch of things in the file for us. I also went through some of the Kraftwerks videos from Evans Performance as well, the car he tuned only made 391whp at 13psi. If yours is only making 8-9psi, I don't see us getting to 380whp or even close. Do they make different pulley sizes and maybe you have the bigger one?
Re: Looking for Calibration Comparisons
That makes sense where the extra boost is coming from. I didn't think about the crank pulley.
Sounds good. We'll see how it looks. Hopefully the knock is gone, otherwise there is a mechanical issue or something causing a false knock.
Sounds good. We'll see how it looks. Hopefully the knock is gone, otherwise there is a mechanical issue or something causing a false knock.